Acoustic Guitarists - Our Days Are Numbered

[Etienne Rambert]

I once thought that synths could never do justice to the strum of a steel-string acoustic guitar. But I played on a Yamaha Motif ES today and I was floored! The Motif ES has perfectly rendered strum patterns on pristine-sounding 6 & 12 string acoustics. Fast strums, slow strums, Bluegrass strums, Gypsy Kings strums; it has a catalogue. But the strums are so much cleaner than what you hear when a good acoustic guitar is strummed. You could add this strum to your own on recordings and it would expand the sound of your own guitar. You're going to be hearing these strums on CD's from now on.

 

I thought it couldn't happen. But synths have caught up.

Our days are numbered.

[orsino]

Good....my fingers are tired anyway.

[Demiurgo]

So what?

The point it's not the sound but how you make it.

Plug the best keyboard to the best amp ever and you'll never have a Piano... yeah you can have almost the same sound, but it'll never be like hearing a string vibrating...

[Art]

I knew it was just a matter of time before George Bush started a contitutional amendment to ban guitar playing in America.

 

If you have any Martins send them to me. I want to go out in a blaze of glory.

[Etienne Rambert]

demiurgo-"So what?

The point it's not the sound but how you make it.

Plug the best keyboard to the best amp ever and you'll never have a Piano... yeah you can have almost the same sound, but it'll never be like hearing a string vibrating...

----

 

At some point-people start to prefer the imitation to the real thing. There is a difference between the Motif ES's "Martin" patch (Yes. It has one) and the sound of a vintage Martin.

 

The Motif ES's Martin is pristine, super-clean.

The actual Martin has some unpredictable resonance, decay.

 

Yes. There is a difference. Add one to the other - you've got an awesome combination.

 

Synths have reached the point where some players will start to prefer the synth sound to the real thing, or will use the synth to augment & embellish the real thing.

 

People have preferred synth pianos to real pianos for years. I have an old piano that doesn't sound nearly as good as the piano on the Motif ES.

 

Ditto for basses. I am a bass player also. I never touch my bass. I play all my parts on a synth.

 

For the first time - synths have reached that stage with acoustic guitar strumming, flatpicking & fingerstyle. I thought it would never happen.

 

Go listen to the Motif ES for yourself.

 

The acoustic guitars will astound you.

[franchelB]

marcellis,

no need for a panic attack. the guitar has been around for hundreds of years; and will still be around for at least a hundred more...

besides, there are SOME people that haven't taken piano lessons OR pianists that are not familiar with a synth's controls.

Personally, I understand that synths have come a long way since its inception. My wife and I each have a keyboard...BUT, I'd take a properly maintained piano over a synth EVERY TIME.

[Demiurgo]

Sorry, pheraps I may sound silly, yet strumming an electric doen't give 1/1000 of the feeling strumming an acoustic...

[LittleBrother]

Art,

 

lol ! Well when Bush leads us into space this can be our new official instrument. Of course there will be no gays in space and our space ships will be poorly decorated. Plus I think Al Gore is going to invent a wireless system for it. Should be fun.

 

Marcellis,

 

Joking aside. If I am the only person on earth playing acoustic on my porch or parlor I will be happy. I dont think I will be holding my breath waiting for the death of the acoustic. In fact I think the world will see a massive surge again in acoustic players.

 

General comment:

 

It's still good to hear that a great product has been produced and makes you happy. I don't predict the same future but you make an interesting internet discussion. I'm sure these rabid acoustic fanatics will all rip this theory apart ;)

 

This should be a fun thread to watch

[MartinD45-GS]

Originally posted by orsino Good....my fingers are tired anyway.

hahahhaha

 

This is already a fun thread to watch- itbeing out of the box.... now I bet all hell will break loose as rumors will float on down to the synthesizer wielding keyboardists and they'll barge in with the Korg Triton swat team.

 

~George

[orsino]

 

Originally posted by LittleBrother Well when Bush leads us into space this can be our new official instrument. Of course there will be no gays in space and our space ships will be poorly decorated. Plus I think Al Gore is going to invent a wireless system for it. Should be fun.

 

 

Oh my God....ROTFLMAO!!!!! You've outdone yourself with this one LB.

[Danocoustic]

This was posted in Open Jam last night (yes, I go there, but don't worry---I shower before I come back here!). I usually don't much care for crossposting but in this case I think it's entirely appropriate.

 

I just can't fathom how any synthesizer can duplicate the nuances and dynamics of a well-played, good-quality acoustic guitar. I will definitely check out this modern marvel machine at my first opportunity, and I'll TRY to keep an open mind---but I admit to being skeptical. I guess I should reserve judgment until then.

 

No matter what, though.....Lil' Bro', you will never be the only one on the porch with an acoustic as long as DanO lives and breathes!

[Etienne Rambert]

You're right Danocoustic. I was trying to get the word out.

Paul Revere sort of thing, sounding the alarm.

 

I am not the expert of true acousticism. But I'm

an acoustic guitarist & I play synths.

 

I was floored by the guitar strums & picking on the Motif ES.

 

I learned in the synths forum that the early Motifs don't have these acoustic strum & fingerstyle patterns. Only the ES series has them, apparently. That's one reason the ES is $500 more than the early Motifs.

 

I'm not trying to start a flame. I know how to do that.

I'm just giving an honest opinion.

 

There is always a problem trying to blend analog instruments

with digital ones in a mix. At least, I think it's difficult.

 

The challenge for me would be to blend these Motif ES sounds with my own acoustic guitar strumming & fingerpicking. The digital clock does not match variations found in the human tempo. In other words, they don't sync.

 

I would REALLY like to add these Motif acoustic guitar sounds into the sound of my own guitars. It would be like adding a high-string except much cleaner & more pristine.

 

In the past, I would not even consider adding a synth steel string acoustic guitar patch with a real acoustic. I've used synth electric guitars & nylon string guitars. But synth steel string acoustic sounds were not very convincing.

 

Those days are over. Now I want that sound. The synth designers have the right sound now. Implementation is the only obstacle left.

 

I'm not trying to start a flame.

But I think in the near future, we're going to hear that

sound on a lot of CD's.

[Doolin Dalton]

I dont believe the acoustic guitar will ever go away!! Sure a synth generated acoustic sound might have its place in a studio or even on stage, But I dont expect to see it on the camp grounds around the fire or at the Lake in the summer.

 

There will always be musical purists out there wanting to capture the authentic sound of acoustics and there will always be a crowd that will want to see and hear the acoustic guitar being played.

[Carle]

I will selectively buy all acoustics at a penny on the dollar just to take all those useless early Martins, Gibsons, etc. that will be replaced by those great new electronic processor guitars. I am doing this as a favor to you so that you will not loose your butt on a trade in. After all they will give you nothing for those useless solid wood antique guitars on an electric processor guitar:D .

[Legend-guitar]

One of the biggest and fastest growing sectors in the Music Industry today is Acoustic Guitars.. Thank you Baby Boomers!

 

Not like the early 80's when you could barely give an acoustic guitar away because of the "Eddie Van Halen" craze. Some well known builders even switched from acoustic to electric guitar building just to survive.. I think that major of a swing will never happen again but it does go in cycles like everything else. But not to worry Guitar will be around for ever... Amen!

 

My 2 cents

 

 

Robbie

[thisllub]

I am looking for a synth at the moment to go into my new studio (if I ever get it set up). The Motif ES is a great synth (a bit out of my budget though) but they arent real guitars, they are only vaguely like real guitars. I think it would be useful if you are learning to play a piece. There are plenty of midi files available that have guitar parts in them, especially classical, and the advantage of midi is that you can slow it down but still keep the melody and tone unlike audio. That lets you play it slower until you know it and progressively increase your speed. I want a synth because they increase the sounds you have at your disposal and combined with good software allow you to write complex music efficiently without a band. If it ever came down to selling off instruments the synth would be gone long before at least 4 of my guitars.

 

 

Demos of the Motif ES guitar sounds

http://www.yamaha-europe.com/yamaha_europe/download/mp3/10_musical_instruments/synthesizer/synthesizer/MOTIF_ES_6_7_8/128kbs_10_Mega_Guitars.mp3

http://files2.keyfax.com/motifes/ARPEGGIOS/UnpluggedARP.mp3

[Etienne Rambert]

Thanks for posting those.

Synths have done electric guitars ok for a long time.

What floored me yesterday, was the fast strumming

on the E to E sus chord (I think). It's in your link.

 

Also the 12-string was fantastic!

[Danocoustic]

I know you're not trying to flame, marcellis! Sorry if I sounded anything like that.

 

I'm just a skeptic by nature!

[MartinD45-GS]

Just listened to those demos.... they still sound too much like synthesizers for me. No way those will replace our precious wood and steel. Amen to acoustic guitar players my brothers.

 

~EH

[Loud Librarian]

Originally posted by MartinD45-GS Just listened to those demos.... they still sound too much like synthesizers for me. No way those will replace our precious wood and steel. Amen to acoustic guitar players my brothers. ~EH

 

Word!

 

OTOH, technology is relentless, think of how digital photography dominates now, and it hasn't been that many years that digital cameras have been available to the masses.

 

Sorry for this example, but "Hey Ya" by Outkast has an acoustic guitar sample on it, it could be a synth given the tone. In a mix with other instruments the average person may not even be able to tell if it's "fake" or not.

 

I think a well played solo acoustic guitar will always be appreciated.

[telenate]

I was caught up with New Wave in the '80s and, for a while, I thought Depeche Mode, Ultravox, New Order, et al, were really cool (New Order is still pretty cool. Some of their songs have held up pretty well). Anyway, it was at a Depeche Mode concert where the keyboardist lifted up his arms as if to say, "Look ma, no hands!" while the music kept playing, and I thought, "So this is music by machines. Hmm."

 

Tangerine Dream produced some amazing original sounds with synths. But they wore the synth label proudly. There was hardly any deception there.

 

If anything these days there continues to be a trend toward authenticity. I'm sure some of these synth sounds could fool me; for instance I didn't know all bass from the Seinfeld TV show music was keyboard synth, but it is. (I had thought it was some rippin' funk bass player.) It gave me a different appreciation for the music. Because it's TV I didn't mind. I must believe that Seinfeld's synth keyboardist is pretty savvy.

 

It matters to people where music comes from. Is it original? Is it personal? While fake music may be able to fool some people, when people actually know it's generated by machines I think they're less than psyched.

 

It's not all about the music. It's partly about seeing a real human being take on a real instrument and go where they may with it spontaneously. The human involvement counts and the level of human involvement is weighed and measured by an educated audience. Can the synth really capture the feeling, the nuances of a live human performance?

 

There never will be a subsitute for the real thing IMO. Prerecorded sounds might be a nice thing to experiment with at home, with one's own music for experimentation, but it could never be taken live and appreciated all that much. It just doesn't have the integrity most people are seeking in their music. There's an air of deception around it.

 

But I can see how it could be useful in limited instances, such as practice, working out parts of songs, and so on.

 

Good thread.

[FingerBone Bill]

Synths have been doing a good job of replicating many instruments for years, drums, violins, pianos, trumpets all spring readily to mind. In years to come they will no doubt get even better. Hell the "melotron" was producing awesome strings sounds 30 years ago.

 

Guess what? - people are still playing drums, violins, pianos, trumpets etc. instruments. And they will still be 30 years from now.

 

To look at the other side of the coin the Roland virtual guitar system enables you to play a multitude of synthesized sounds through your guitar - And again, guess what? - most guitarists don't use them!

 

I'll be there with Little Brother sitting on my front porch pickin' and watching the world go by.

[MartinD45-GS]

Originally posted by telenate I was caught up with New Wave in the '80s and, for a while, I thought Depeche Mode, Ultravox, New Order, et al, were really cool (New Order is still pretty cool. Some of their songs have held up pretty well). Anyway, it was at a Depeche Mode concert where the keyboardist lifted up his arms as if to say, "Look ma, no hands!" while the music kept playing, and I thought, "So this is music by machines. Hmm." Tangerine Dream produced some amazing original sounds with synths. But they wore the synth label proudly. There was hardly any deception there. If anything these days there continues to be a trend toward authenticity. I'm sure some of these synth sounds could fool me; for instance I didn't know all bass from the Seinfeld TV show music was keyboard synth, but it is. (I had thought it was some rippin' funk bass player.) It gave me a different appreciation for the music. Because it's TV I didn't mind. I must believe that Seinfeld's synth keyboardist is pretty savvy. It matters to people where music comes from. Is it original? Is it personal? While fake music may be able to fool some people, when people actually know it's generated by machines I think they're less than psyched. It's not all about the music. It's partly about seeing a real human being take on a real instrument and go where they may with it spontaneously. The human involvement counts and the level of human involvement is weighed and measured by an educated audience. Can the synth really capture the feeling, the nuances of a live human performance? There never will be a subsitute for the real thing IMO. Prerecorded sounds might be a nice thing to experiment with at home, with one's own music for experimentation, but it could never be taken live and appreciated all that much. It just doesn't have the integrity most people are seeking in their music. There's an air of deception around it. But I can see how it could be useful in limited instances, such as practice, working out parts of songs, and so on. Good thread.

Being a keyboard/synthesizer player myself... well, haven't played keyboards seriously in a long time since I took the guitar up a few years back, I knew that bass slap sound on seinfeld was a synthesizer... no, the average person who doesn't know a whole lot about music or music instruments will not tell, but just look at the post counts on the home page for all the forums. When the synthesizer posts outnumber all the other forum post counts, gimme a shout... There will never, never, be a replacement for the standard and conventional guitar or guitar player besides new and improved versions of already existing guitars and maybe carbon/graphite composite guitars due to the strength they have.

 

~EH

[FingerBone Bill]

An analogy:

 

If we can liken Recorded Music (CD's Vinyl etc.) to television or cinema and

 

playing a real instrument to real life then it follows that

 

Synthesizers are the musical equivalent to Video Games. - requiring user input and always getting closer to reality without ever getting there. Fun to play with but never a replacement for reality.

[thisllub]

What is the holy grail of synths? The one that creates the most natural acoustic sounds especially piano. The Roland Fantom has blends of 4 touch sensitive sounds per note on its main piano sound. They sound better than any piano recording I could get at home but a piano can be emulated much more easily than a guitar.

Stick your nose in the soundhole of your guitar and take a deep breath. My cedar / mahogany guitar smells like it sounds - definitely not like plastic. It plays just as well in places where there is no electricity and sometimes I will just play a single note to delight in letting it ring out alone, yet a well played synthetic sound can be exciting. There are many pleasures in life and it would be sad to allow musical snobbery to deny them to us.