Members NDSP Posted September 18, 2005 Members Share Posted September 18, 2005 Originally posted by daklander I'm sorry. I don't know that I could listen to that caterwaller for such a long time period without going insane, let alone be the cause of the noise. Leo Kottke tells a great story about a kid and a french horn from when he was growing up. You gotta hear it. It doesn't get much worse than a bad horn player, that's for sure. I'm a beginner guitar player, i gave up the horn because I couldn't play up to the level I was accustomed to anymore. So I'm putting it down. And choosing a different weapon. I fully expect to be able to achieve a high level of play, using the practice techniques/regimen that I used as a horn player. I just personally can't get any musical satisfaction out of the music I'm playing if i'm sucking it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JasmineTea Posted September 18, 2005 Members Share Posted September 18, 2005 Originally posted by daklander I'm sorry. I don't know that I could listen to that caterwaller for such a long time period without going insane, let alone be the cause of the noise. Leo Kottke tells a great story about a kid and a french horn from when he was growing up. You gotta hear it. IMO, that's an inapropriate thing to say. Anyone who plays/performs frenchhorn for 27 years probly knows what the heck they're talking about. NDSP makes a good point. If I was a french horn player I'd strive for perfection too. You're expected to do so when you play in an orchestra. You're not there to improvise, you're there to play a part. Classical guitar however, is something physicaly impossible for me to do, how can I strive for perfection when I can't even approach the style? Mabey I should play french horn instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knockwood Posted September 18, 2005 Members Share Posted September 18, 2005 Originally posted by NDSP The rationalization of perfection lacks musicality is nothing more than an excuse to not achieve perfection. Admittedly, perfection like many aspects of music is subjective, but for arguments sake let just call it not missing a note and playing in tune. Nonsense. Perfection isn't paramount to me, and I therefore feel no need for excuses or rationalization in any direction. Suggesting that people opposed to perfection as a fundamental artistic aim, or opposed to turning art into some kind of anal academic enterprise, are "2nd tier players" is insulting and, I think, full of crap. The fundamental purpose of any language is to facilitate the communication of thoughts and feelings. Blues, gospel... some of the greatest, most evocative songs ever written were written by people with a far less than perfect grasp of the rules of English. Music is just another language, and not every composition is improved by strict application of the rules. "It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure." -- Albert Einstein Einstein flunked out of college, btw. 2nd tier kind of guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cldplytkmn Posted September 18, 2005 Members Share Posted September 18, 2005 i've heard great stories about french poodles and takamines... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JasmineTea Posted September 18, 2005 Members Share Posted September 18, 2005 Originally posted by Cldplytkmn i've heard great stories about french poodles and takamines... Have another beer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members daklander Posted September 18, 2005 Members Share Posted September 18, 2005 Originally posted by JasmineTea IMO, that's an inapropriate thing to say. Emoticons.... I believe NDSP understood my reply in the manner it was intended, as a joke, not a slight. I actually gave the horn a run in high school band and couldn't play it. I played just a bit of trombone, wasn't very good, and so played the Sousaphone instead.Ooompah, Blaat! Imagine, if you will, a scrawny 135 pound pencil necker crawling inside that sucker & marching with it. No fiberglass in those days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JasmineTea Posted September 18, 2005 Members Share Posted September 18, 2005 Originally posted by daklander Emoticons.... My fault. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JasmineTea Posted September 18, 2005 Members Share Posted September 18, 2005 The world of improv meets the world of sheet music. I wonder what Bach would say to Satch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NDSP Posted September 18, 2005 Members Share Posted September 18, 2005 Originally posted by knockwood Nonsense. Perfection isn't paramount to me, and I therefore feel no need for excuses or rationalization in any direction. Suggesting that people opposed to perfection as a fundamental artistic aim, or opposed to turning art into some kind of anal academic enterprise, are "2nd tier players" is insulting and, I think, full of crap.The fundamental purpose of any language is to facilitate the communication of thoughts and feelings. Blues, gospel... some of the greatest, most evocative songs ever written were written by people with a far less than perfect grasp of the rules of English. Music is just another language, and not every composition is improved by strict application of the rules. "It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure." -- Albert EinsteinEinstein flunked out of college, btw. 2nd tier kind of guy. You go ahead and hack away through all the music you want and stand proud at your musicianship. How many missed notes are exceptable? At some point you have to draw the line between hack and accomplished player. So how many notes should they be allowed to clang and still be considered accomplished? How many notes can be missed before it starts to detract too much from the music? Those that can't attain a level of play mock it and spew massive amounts of rationalization as to why it isn't important. Be offended all you want, the truth hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JasmineTea Posted September 18, 2005 Members Share Posted September 18, 2005 Originally posted by NDSP You go ahead and hack away through all the music you want and stand proud at your musicianship. How many missed notes are exceptable? At some point you have to draw the line between hack and accomplished player. So how many notes should they be allowed to clang and still be considered accomplished? How many notes can be missed before it starts to detract too much from the music? Those that can't attain a level of play mock it and spew massive amounts of rationalization as to why it isn't important. Be offended all you want, the truth hurts. Muddy Waters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knockwood Posted September 18, 2005 Members Share Posted September 18, 2005 Originally posted by NDSP You go ahead and hack away through all the music you want and stand proud at your musicianship. How many missed notes are exceptable? At some point you have to draw the line between hack and accomplished player. So how many notes should they be allowed to clang and still be considered accomplished? How many notes can be missed before it starts to detract too much from the music? Those that can't attain a level of play mock it and spew massive amounts of rationalization as to why it isn't important. Be offended all you want, the truth hurts. Edit. My apologies to Misha for going wildly OT on a thread that started with a fair, innocent question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NDSP Posted September 18, 2005 Members Share Posted September 18, 2005 Damn, I'm off to a wonderful start on this board, lol. Look it comes down to what level you want to attain. If your not interested in being the best you can be and good enough is good enough for you to achieve musical joy. then that is where it is at for you. I personally have become very accustomed to a high level of play, and anything less, at least at this time, is unacceptable. That may change in time as I don't have to time to dedicate to practice as I did as a horn student. But for now, joy will be close to perfection. My complaint/argument is in the statements that playing technically perfect is stiff and unmusical, and that is just dead wrong. It can be done very musically and when achieved it is magical. Most of ya'll where making technical mastery and musciality mutually exclusive and that is just dead wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Misha Posted September 18, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 18, 2005 I don't think I will be perfect but i want to do my best! I wonder if I should be learning a lot of easy stuff and feel good because I can play it or if It is better to try more challenging songs even if I make more mistakes? Also, some mistakes are worst than others. If you hit a bad note not in tune it is more obvious than if you just repeat a measure (and play alone). When you make a mistake during a gig, do you try to hide it (bend it until you reach a note that is in tune) or what? Finally, I like the idea of getting better because of the mistakes you make. My oncle is a scientist and in the past, a mistake led him to the full synthesis of a very complex molecule. A robot could never do that, only humans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NDSP Posted September 18, 2005 Members Share Posted September 18, 2005 Are you taking lessons? Learning the fundamentals and having a good plan to get to your goal is something a good teacher can be very helpful with. Attaining a level of competancy at each step along the way will provide a good foundation for your future growth as a musician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JasmineTea Posted September 18, 2005 Members Share Posted September 18, 2005 Originally posted by NDSP Damn, I'm off to a wonderful start on this board, lol. Look it comes down to what level you want to attain. If your not interested in being the best you can be and good enough is good enough for you to achieve musical joy. then that is where it is at for you. I personally have become very accustomed to a high level of play, and anything less, at least at this time, is unacceptable. That may change in time as I don't have to time to dedicate to practice as I did as a horn student. But for now, joy will be close to perfection.My complaint/argument is in the statements that playing technically perfect is stiff and unmusical, and that is just dead wrong. It can be done very musically and when achieved it is magical. Most of ya'll where making technical mastery and musciality mutually exclusive and that is just dead wrong. Nah. Depends on your idea of "level" "attaining" "best" "joy" I am also accustomed to a "high level of play" Have been playing for over 30 years. I never took lessons, I can't read a note. Am I disqualified as a musician? Take one: sounds this way.Take two: sounds that way.Take three: inbetween:Take four: Completely off the map. Go with Take four. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Misha Posted September 18, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 18, 2005 I plan to take lessons but only after my surgery. That means in maybe 2 or 3 months if everything goes fine! I know I will have to deal with the suture across my abdomen. But I did it 16 months ago... I think I should be able to play guitar in my bed... Even if I have only 3-4 good hours a day, I'll spend that time doing something I love! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Misha Posted September 18, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 18, 2005 la suite... I hope that when I'm ready to go back to work and take guitar lessons, I can say I progressed with my playing. I need to get something positive out of that bad period in my life! I'll do it! Trust me! I'll post first clips after Christmas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JasmineTea Posted September 18, 2005 Members Share Posted September 18, 2005 Originally posted by Misha la suite...But I still hope that when I'm ready to go back to work and take guitar lessons, I can say I progressed with my playing. I need to get something positive out of that bad period in my life! I love you. Marrie me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Misha Posted September 18, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 18, 2005 Jasmine Tea wrote: I love you. Marrie me. Only if you take me AND my seven kids! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JasmineTea Posted September 18, 2005 Members Share Posted September 18, 2005 Originally posted by Misha Jasmine Tea wrote: Only if you take me AND my seven kids! Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Misha Posted September 18, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 18, 2005 Jasmine tea wrote: Fair enough. ... and the twins are only 2 years old! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JasmineTea Posted September 18, 2005 Members Share Posted September 18, 2005 Originally posted by Misha Jasmine tea wrote: ... and the twins are only 2 years old! Wonderful, sounds like fun!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JasmineTea Posted September 18, 2005 Members Share Posted September 18, 2005 Originally posted by knockwood Edit. My apologies to Misha for going wildly OT on a thread that started with a fair, innocent question.Well, I'm not apologizing.... I hijacked the thread with a fair innocent question. Now all I gotta do is learn french. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Misha Posted September 18, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 18, 2005 Jasmine Tea, before you do anything, I need to be honest. See the picture please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Misha Posted September 18, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 18, 2005 oh but you know, you still can learn french!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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