Members u6crash Posted October 30, 2006 Members Share Posted October 30, 2006 I played a really nice 1971 Martin 12 string guitar today. The neck seemed straight and it played well, though it has definitely been worn in. My main concern is that I have never picked up any vintage guitars before and I don't know what sort of maintainence it requires or whatever. I imagine I'll make sure I get it with a hardshell case and get a humidifier for the case. Before I tell you their asking price, what would you pay for one of these in good playing condition? I think their price is pretty fair, but I'm short on cash so I'll have to see if they would take my Carvin acoustic in on a part trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members placebo62 Posted October 30, 2006 Members Share Posted October 30, 2006 which model is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members u6crash Posted October 30, 2006 Author Members Share Posted October 30, 2006 I don't know Martin models well, but I believe the tag said D-12-18. Does that mean it's a twelve string version of a D-18, and if so, what should D-18 tell me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sweb Posted October 30, 2006 Members Share Posted October 30, 2006 It should read D-18-12. The D-18 is a very nice 6 string dread. I owned one and thought it to be a great guitar. I bought a used '75 D-35-12 that was very close to needing a neck reset. Read the sticky at the top of this forum titled "Is My Guitar Sick?" by Freeman Keller. Understand his explanation about string height, where it should be and make a note of it. If you have a small ruler measure the string height at the proper points on the Martin. Also, I'm not sure but the D-35-12 I had was a 12 fretter (12 frets clear of the body} so the D-18 may be the same way. If you want a 12 with 14 frets clear this may not be the guitar for you. In any case the thing is old and should be inspected by a luthier or Martin qualified repair tech for structural issues before you buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted October 30, 2006 Members Share Posted October 30, 2006 All the D12-18s I've ever seen were 14-fretters (as are D12-28s)...the 18 has a spruce top/mahogany back & sides (solid, of course) and it about the only Martin 12-string (other than the 12-fretter D12-20) that is consistently worth owning...other Martin 12s can be great or horrible, but these two are rarely anything less than superb, if properly taken care of. Try not to pay more than $1500, u6crash, unless it's in immaculate condition, in every way...then, up to $2K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members u6crash Posted October 30, 2006 Author Members Share Posted October 30, 2006 I'm not sure how I would go about having a Martin qualified tech to look at it. Find one through their website? What would I tell the store owners? That I'd like to borrow the guitar to make sure that their tech knows what's going on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members u6crash Posted October 30, 2006 Author Members Share Posted October 30, 2006 Originally posted by Terry Allan Hall Try not to pay more than $1500, u6crash, unless it's in immaculate condition, in every way...then, up to $2K. They are asking $749. Does that suggest something is wrong with it? It was definitely worn and has scratches and dents, but like I said, played great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted October 30, 2006 Members Share Posted October 30, 2006 Originally posted by u6crash They are asking $749. Does that suggest something is wrong with it? It was definitely worn and has scratches and dents, but like I said, played great. Maybe, or maybe it's been around the shop and they're trying to move it (thus, a bargain). Because so many Martin 12-strings are less than spectacular, Martin doesn't have the reputation for 12-strings that Guild and Taylor have... See if you can buy it on a 72-hour "speculation" or take along a trusted friend to examine it...things to specifically look for is: (A) Is the bridge pulling up off the face? Look for a gap at the bottom end from the face. (B) Is the action any higher than the thickness of two dimes at the 12th fret? Is the heel securely attached to the top of the sides w/o any gap? Is the neck perfectly straight? © Is the intonation good up and down the neck? Play an open "G" chord, the play a "D" chord shape at the 7th fret (which is also a G), then play a 12th fret harmonic on the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th strings...if they all are in tune w/ one another, the intonation is decent. (D) How are the frets?...are any worn down so low that they buzz or sound thenext fret up? (E) Carefully eyeball it for cracks along the edge, sides, back, and face. (F) Gently rap at several places and listen to hear anything vibrating. All of these problems can be fixed, but if it has very many of these problems, it could get pricy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members u6crash Posted October 30, 2006 Author Members Share Posted October 30, 2006 Thank you for all the tips. Wish I had a trusted friend to take with me, but I know more about guitars than most of my guitar playing friends. I don't think it has been sitting there very long. It's been about a month since I was last there. When I go back I will sit and play it for a while and try all the things you suggested. I almost want there to be something wrong with it because I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to find the money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Terry Allan Hall Posted October 30, 2006 Members Share Posted October 30, 2006 Originally posted by u6crash Thank you for all the tips. Wish I had a trusted friend to take with me, but I know more about guitars than most of my guitar playing friends. I don't think it has been sitting there very long. It's been about a month since I was last there. When I go back I will sit and play it for a while and try all the things you suggested. I almost want there to be something wrong with it because I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to find the money Well, like I said, it may just be your lucky day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted October 30, 2006 Members Share Posted October 30, 2006 U6crash Lets take this slowly, First, a D12-18 COULD be a very great 12 string - I have the rosewood version and it is a wonderful guitar. BUT a few things concern me. Many older Martins have serious neck angle problems and it is expensive to fix ($300 or so). There is a very simple test and it is described in my sticky "Is My Guitar Sick" at the top of the page - take a 24 inch straightedge and lay it on the fret board. The end should just touch the top of the bridge. If it is very much above the bridge you are looking at a reset. Resets are not necessarily bad if done right - but if it needs it then you have a negotiating point. People will compensated for neck angle by really lowering the saddle - you can get a playable action this way but you are just putting off the inevitable. This was done to my D12-28 - there was almost no saddle sticking out of the bridge. No wonder it didn't sound good. TAH mentioned the bridge - mine was pulling up and the lower bout had a very pronounced bulge. The bulge comes from the neck angle, the loose bridge is from the tension. Again, both are fixable. You may also have cracks around the pickguard (common on old Martys) - and easily fixed. If yours is a slothead (I don't think it is) make sure the tuners are in good shape as they are impossible to find replacements and many are worn. I paid $800 for mine not realizing that it had these problems (the action was nice and low - that is all I knew at the time). I played it for quite a few years and the action kept getting higher. By then I knew it had problems and I thought about selling it but frankly I could not sell a serious problem to someone else (like you). So last year I put over $600 into repairs and it plays like a dream. If I wanted to sell mine right now I would ask 1500 or more. Run thru all the checks in the Sick Guitar sticky - they apply to a 12 just like a 6. If it passes, you've got a great guitar. If it fails either negotiate with the owner and prepare for having the work done or pass on it. Also, last, but far from least. I personally don't like dreadnaught 12 strings. They are great strummers, but not as balanced for fingerstyle. You might want to play some other 12's for comparison. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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