When you practice(d) scales?

[Kaux]

Hi, i think in some ways its better to learn an instrument when you dont know another. For example now that i practice scales in the guitar i find my self a little lost in the sense that in the keyboards, you actually see what note you are pressing, i mean the one behind the group of two blacks is always C and so on.

 

When i make scales in the guitar i visualize its pattern very well, but not the individual notes.

 

When you practice scales, are you thinking about wich note are you fretting each time?, like do you mentally go D-F#-G# etc?

 

I am afraid that practicing the caged system would make me very proficient in every pattern but without actually knowing the fret board...

[guitarist21]

When you practice scales, are you thinking about wich note are you fretting each time?, like do you mentally go D-F#-G# etc?

 

 

No, but I should be.

 

I have a pretty awful work ethic, so I only practice scales when I absolutely have to for school. (I'm a music student.) And at that point I have to retain as much information I can in a short period of time, so I have to focus on patterns and finger placement. But ideally, I would be practicing them enough to get past the patterns and focus on the note names.

 

Ellen

[riffmeister]

Scales as patterns is the primary way I think when I improvise. But I've been reading music for many years so the brain can also easily register which note is being played. I think it is good to know scales both ways.....gives you the most lattitude in the long run.

[min7b5]

...When you practice scales, are you thinking about wich note are you fretting each time?, like do you mentally go D-F#-G# etc? ......

 

 

No.

 

I think it's a terrible why of learning where the notes are on the neck. It would probably take years to have it down.

 

Scale practice is good hand and ear training but not so great for learning the note names. But that's just me:)

[missedmyexit]

I think if you can remember what intervals the scale uses you should be able to figure out the notes without much of a problem without having to memorize them in each position.

[Kaux]

Scales as patterns is the primary way I think when I improvise. But I've been reading music for many years so the brain can also easily register which note is being played. I think it is good to know scales both ways.....gives you the most lattitude in the long run.

So when improvising, and thinking scales in terms of patterns, how do you stay with the harmony? how do you follow it, by ear?

What surprised me, and gave me peace is that after practicing a pattern without thinking of notes, for a particular key, then i tried to play a melody i know in the keyboard, and it was really natural to find the notes.

[jamesp]

I don't think about notes names, but I try to keep track of their place in the scale. Even more so when practising arpeggios.

[wu ming]

learn them in the first position before trying anything else.

 

Very much of playing guitar is about repeating the same patterns and shapes in different places.

 

the caged system is ok but i found its downfall to be that it doesn't teach shifting to different positions it just teaches box patterns.

 

if you can read sheet music buy a copy of the segovia scales, they are more useful than caged for what I think you are seeking.

[Kaux]

if you can read sheet music buy a copy of the segovia scales, they are more useful than caged for what I think you are seeking.

[fmw]

I'm like you. I'm very familiar with the notes on a keyboard. I play the guitar mostly with patterns.

If you think about it, it will make sense. When you change keys on a piano, everything changes - not just the notes but even the fingering. On a guitar only the fret positions change. To transpose something from the key of F to the key of F# is a major undertaking on a piano. On a guitar you just move up one fret.

So, it makes little sense to play patterns on a keyboard because they change all the time. On a guitar it makes all kinds of sense.

[wu ming]

 

http://chordmelody.org/pdf/Segovia%20Scales/

 

they are there for free.

[riffmeister]

So when improvising, and thinking scales in terms of patterns, how do you stay with the harmony? how do you follow it, by ear?

Chords are patterns, too. So for me it's usually an interplay between the chord pattern and the scale pattern. And of course there's a feedback cycle which involves hearing what I'm playing as an influence on what I want to play next. Funny, improvising comes very easily to me, but explaining it doesn't!

[Chicken Monkey]

I think if you can remember what intervals the scale uses you should be able to figure out the notes without much of a problem without having to memorize them in each position.

 

 

+1. My thought pattern, which get more fluid when I work at it, registers physical position within the scale pattern, then interval, then note.

[Broadus]

http://chordmelody.org/pdf/Segovia%20Scales/ they are there for free.

Link didn't work for me.

Bill

[MattSkibaIsGOD]

Like ellen, I am a music student, so right now it's basically cramming as many patterns into my brain as possible. When I improvise, I try to let my ears guide my fingers and sometimes just let the fingers do what they want until something great or horrible happens.

[jamesp]

Link didn't work for me. Bill

 

 

Here's a link to the parent directory, Bill. HIH.

(Or maybe try a different browser?)

 

When running scales I think more about crisp timing and getting a clear, full tone. The note patterns will get dialed-in, but you don't want to drill in teh bad tonez. Making scales and arpeggios sound "musical" is the name o' the game.

[Gary Palmer]

Here's a link to the parent directory, Bill. HIH. (Or maybe try a different browser?) When running scales I think more about crisp timing and getting a clear, full tone. The note patterns will get dialed-in, but you don't want to drill in teh bad tonez. Making scales and arpeggios sound "musical" is the name o' the game.

Musicality is key to using scales to their best advantage, as anyone can play scale runs note for note, but accenting the way notes are played and improvisation IMHO makes things more interesting while also helping make the information stick.

Another point is whether to work from musical notation, TAB, or both. Each has it's good points. TAB shows fingering position, but lacks timing, note emphasis - rhythm and emotion - whilst notation provides everything as long as you know the location of notes on the fretboard. From a classically trained perspective, I feel this is where using scales and learning the location of each note on the fingerboard are key to learning how to tie notation into being able to physically play what's written and be capable of playing it anywhere on the fretboard.

You don't have to play scales or learn notes on the fingerboard in a robotic fashion.

My music study books are long gone, but a little online searching and questioning will no doubt uncover a few priceless learning aids and recommendations.

[Broadus]

Here's a link to the parent directory, Bill. HIH. (Or maybe try a different browser?)

 

 

Thanks. Funny, but it works this morning (both yours and his).

 

Bill

[Kaux]

Funny, improvising comes very easily to me, but explaining it doesn't!

That happens to me with a lot of things... The more natural one thing is for you, the more difficult it becomes to explain how you do it...

[Kaux]

+1. My thought pattern, which get more fluid when I work at it, registers physical position within the scale pattern, then interval, then note.

 

 

Can you elaborate? i mean do you first learn the pattern? then you worry about the actual notes you are playing?

[Kaux]

So how do you guys learn the actual postition of the notes in the fingerboards? it seems to me that nobody thinks scales are the best way for that...

[Maximum]

So how do you guys learn the actual postition of the notes in the fingerboards? it seems to me that nobody thinks scales are the best way for that...

 

 

It's probably true that scales are not the best way to learn the position of notes on the fingerboard, but they're still an OK way to do it -- so since you're going to practice scales anyway, why not also take the opportunity to get some more value out of that practice time?

 

When doing scales, I try to sing the name of each note, out loud, at pitch, as I play. This gives me practice on the name/location of notes and on singing in key, while learning and practicing the scales themselves. When I get fast enough on a scale, this isn't practical anymore, but for someone with my finger unspeed that's rarely a problem.

[JasmineTea]

When doing scales, I try to sing the name of each note, out loud, at pitch, as I play.

YES!! However I don't think one needs to sing the name/number. What's most important is hearing, seeing, understanding the interval of each note as related to the scale or arpegio or key. Humming along is a great way to train one's own ear.

 

Next thing you know, you're walking through the grocery store and calling out the chord names playing in the MUZAK.

 

Another helpful thing is to see the notes as numbers rather than letters. The intervals for one key will be the same for all other keys, so seeing them as all being the same (asigning Numbers to the notes instead of Letters) simplifies.