Best Acoustic for Rhythm

[Chip Stewart]

I'm a rhythm guitar player with a percussive style and fairly large dynamic range. Given my style, I think an acoustic guitar with an Adirondack Spruce top and Rosewood back and sides would best suit me. I prefer an OM style body, but think a Dreadnought might better suit my playing style. Given the above information, what guitars do you think would best suit me? Price is no object at this point in the search, I'm just trying to figure out what I should be looking for. Thanks for any help you can provide.

[Opa John]

Well, you pretty much just described the Martin OM-28M Rosanne Cash signature model guitar. www.musiciansfriend.com has it for $5599.00, but you also said money's no object........so, there ya go!

EDIT: Chip, the above comment was my attempt at being a smart aleck. For less than half of the price above you can get a Martin H or HD-28 which is the standard by which just about all dreadnoughts are based. About $2300-$2600 in round figures. And, you could also get one of these used for about 2/3 of that cost. Personally, I'd rather buy a new one given the fact that the lifetime warranty that comes with it would cover just about any structural problem that could ever arise in the future. But, the warranty is only good for the original buyer.......it's not something that could be transferred to a second or third owner of the instrument.

At the same time, there are some really fine dreadnoughts that can be had for half the cost of an HD-28. You really need to get out and try all of them. But, in my opinion, the HD-28 is the "real deal"......the rest of 'em are HD-28 "wannabes". I don't own one YET, but I'm working on it. I'll have one some day............Happy hunting!

[larry50]

Dreadnoughts usually play the rhythm role for acoustic playing, while OM's are primarily used for fingerstyle. OM's can be strummed, but not with the volume or authority of a dread. So, I would recommend a dreadnought. If money is no object, then there are many, many choices. The classic Martin dread is the D-28, while the classic Gibson would be an SJ-200. But, there are tons of other choices as well.

[OldGuitarPlayer]

I'd have to agree that the Martin D-28 would be a good choice to start with. Taylor makes the 810 and DN8 with rosewood back and sides with a Sitka (not Adirondack I know) spruce top.

If you can get into mahogany back and sides I'd look at the Martin D-18, Gibson J45 and Hummingbirds.

I have tried both D-28s and J45s over the years and for playing open chord rhythm guitar I'd say the D-28 would be my choice. If you really want to save some cash I'd highly suggest the new Martin D-15M or older D-15. They run about $1000 and from what I am seeing and hearing about them they are a real steal. Even my smaller Martin 000-15 (solid hog, top, back, sides) holds it's own for playing rhythm. I play mostly oldtime folk and blues music and using either fingerpicked or flatpick/strum techniques it works great and gives me the sound I am looking for. It actually has nice bass tone without the boom, good midrange and solid trebles with more than enough volume to accompany my voice.

Good luck and let us know what you end up buying.

[brahmz118]

I hate to generalize, but I tend to hear the dreadnought as the weak link in acoustic ensembles. Good bass, but not in the same galaxy as the bass players. Good trebles, but no where near the presence of violins, and still pretty far behind the banjos and mandolins in raw cutting power. Midrange is less emphasized, so the guitar's niche - chords in the midrange - don't really come through without the assistance of technology / strategic positioning around a mic. Even in guitar duets I find the dreads a bit murky.

 

Listen to some sound clips from Bryan Sutton's duet album Not Too Far from the Tree.

 

It's certainly a signature bluegrass / acoustic guitar sound, but the rhythm isn't really clear to my ears. And these are obviously top-of-the-line dreads.

 

In contrast, you can hear some clips from an archtop duet here: My Compliments.

 

The archtops are more midrangey, so to my ears they don't go away as much during rhythmic comping. Some might find the sound a bit nasal compared to the deeper sounding dreads, but I'm personally starting to prefer it. It's a matter of clarity and presence.

 

So it's just a suggestion. Acoustic archtops aren't cheap, but they are really great rhythm boxes in noisy situations - it's part of their history. They also look visually appealing in my opinion, which doesn't hurt if you're trying to be noticed.

[Chip Stewart]

Thank you for all of the replies. It has definitely helped get me thinking. Since I also sing lead vocals, I need an acoustic guitar that I can plug in so I don't have to worry about where the guitar mic is. Is the Martin DC-28E comparable to the Martin HD-28? The DC-28E has a Sitka Spruce top and East Indian Rosewood back and sides. One thing that worries me is the specs say the neck material is "Select Hardwood", while the HD-28 specs say the neck material is "Mahogany". What is select hardwood, and should this worry me?

Thank you all for helping me with this. I'm only going to be able to spend this much money once, and I need to make sure I make the right decision.

[guitarcapo]

Something like a Gibson Hummingbird comes to mind.

But really this thread reminds me of:

"Which fork is best to eat meatloaf with?"

[Michael Martin]

A Collings dread is the best thing I ever played for rhythm in an ensemble situation. Volume, overall tonal balance. Louder, brighter than my Hummingbird. I don't know which model. I know it wasn't cheap!

 

I do prefer the 'bird's tone when playing alone or with only a mando alongside.

[Stackabones]

Since I also sing lead vocals, I need an acoustic guitar that I can plug in so I don't have to worry about where the guitar mic is.

If your primary use is plugged-in and on-stage, then it doesn't really matter what you get and the nuances of the tonewoods you mention will largely be lost when plugging in.

Just find something that feels good in your hands and against your body.

The plugged-in stock setup for most acoustic-electrics is just about the same for any model -- some are better, some are worse, but none of them entirely depend upon the acoustic properties of the guitar (unless, of course, you use an internal mic or, even better glory hallelujah this).

[Chip Stewart]

If your primary use is plugged-in and on-stage, then it doesn't really matter what you get and the nuances of the tonewoods you mention will largely be lost when plugging in. Just find something that feels good in your hands and against your body. The plugged-in stock setup for most acoustic-electrics is just about the same for any model -- some are better, some are worse, but none of them entirely depend upon the acoustic properties of the guitar (unless, of course, you use an internal mic or, even better glory hallelujah this ).

I'm currently using a Yamaha APX-5A, which feels great in my hands and against my body. I feel like sometimes I'm overdriving the top though, and the predominant sound is treble with the mids and lows having a lessor presence. I'll have to try out some dreadnoughts plugged in and see what I hear (preferably with the sound hole plugged). If I'm not going to get a greater presence of the mids and lows, it might not be worth spending the money.

[larry50]

 

Thank you for all of the replies. It has definitely helped get me thinking. Since I also sing lead vocals, I need an acoustic guitar that I can plug in so I don't have to worry about where the guitar mic is. Is the Martin DC-28E comparable to the Martin HD-28? The DC-28E has a Sitka Spruce top and East Indian Rosewood back and sides. One thing that worries me is the specs say the neck material is "Select Hardwood", while the HD-28 specs say the neck material is "Mahogany". What is select hardwood, and should this worry me? Thank you all for helping me with this. I'm only going to be able to spend this much money once, and I need to make sure I make the right decision.

 

 

The HD-28 is an upgraded D-28, adding herringbone purfling and scalloped bracing for a fatter bass. According to Martin, "select hardwood" in most cases refers to Spanish cedar. However, Martin uses very high quality wood on their standard line (which includes the D-28 and HD-28), so I wouldn't be concerned at all. My Martin OM-16GT has a Spanish cedar neck which closely resembles mahogany, is quite lovely and a joy to play.

[Stackabones]

 

I'm currently using a Yamaha APX-5A, which feels great in my hands and against my body. I feel like sometimes I'm overdriving the top though, and the predominant sound is treble with the mids and lows having a lessor presence. I'll have to try out some dreadnoughts plugged in and see what I hear ( preferably with the sound hole plugged ). If I'm not going to get a greater presence of the mids and lows , it might not be worth spending the money.

 

 

Seriously, that's all EQ & amp/speaker and not wood.

 

Soundhole plug + plugged-in = EQ/amp settings not tonewood combinations

 

 

The soundhole plug is enough to essentially fundamentally alter the acoustic properties of any acoustic (my guess is that you take it out when not plugged in). You could also try out electrics equipped with piezo systems to get an idea of how that piezo/UST sound doesn't really depend on the guitar as much as it does other factors (electronics, amps, speakers). There's a vid somewhere on youtube there with a piezo on a cement brick. It ain't about the body materials.

 

You'll notice that on many live performances with acoustics these days that they plug in and put a mic out front. The plugging in gives the soundman some control, while the mic helps the acoustic actually sound like an acoustic guitar.

 

If you feel like you are overdriving the top when plugged in, it may be just that you are overdriving the piezo. They tend to get quackier when hit hard. A little EQ can work it out.

 

Going from that Yammie to a dread is a big adjustment as far as fit and feel. Have you considered other small body gits like 00 or 000?

[Chip Stewart]

Going from that Yammie to a dread is a big adjustment as far as fit and feel. Have you considered other small body gits like 00 or 000?

I already tried a Martin 000C-16RGTE, Taylor 314ce, and Larrivee LV-03RE. My impressions with each were:

Martin 000C-16RGTE: Sound was about 10% better than my Yamaha when using 2 out of the 6 Aura presets. The other 4 Aura presets actually sounded worse than my Yamaha. Nice feel and playability. Poor craftsmanship. The pegs did not fit properly into the bridge, along with other small deficiencies that shouldn't be on a $1700 guitar. Decided that the 10% improvement in tone was not worth $1700.

Taylor 314ce: Excellent craftsmanship. Everything fit like a Swiss watch. Nice feel and playability. The Expression system gave it a "wispy" sound that doesn't fit well with some of the driving Folk Rock type songs I play. Would be an excellent guitar for "light" styles of music, but not suited to hard rocking songs.

Larrivee LV-03RE: Very good craftsmanship. Good sound, but not that much better than my Yamaha. Did not like the feel of the guitar. I'm not sure why, but it just didn't suit me. Would probably be fine for someone else, but it just wasn't the right guitar for me.

Having explored the OM guitars in the ~$1500 range and not being satisfied, I'm now expanding my search. I heard a McPherson that blew me away, but they come with medium strings (I'm used to light) and cost ~$7000. I may eventually end up getting a McPherson, but I won't have that kind of money for several years. I'm now searching for something that blows me away for less than $7000. We'll see if I find it. Thanks again for all of the suggestions.

[larry50]

I already tried a Martin 000C-16RGTE, Taylor 314ce, and Larrivee LV-03RE. My impressions with each were: Martin 000C-16RGTE: Sound was about 10% better than my Yamaha when using 2 out of the 6 Aura presets. The other 4 Aura presets actually sounded worse than my Yamaha. Nice feel and playability. Poor craftsmanship. The pegs did not fit properly into the bridge, along with other small deficiencies that shouldn't be on a $1700 guitar. Decided that the 10% improvement in tone was not worth $1700. Taylor 314ce: Excellent craftsmanship. Everything fit like a Swiss watch. Nice feel and playability. The Expression system gave it a "wispy" sound that doesn't fit well with some of the driving Folk Rock type songs I play. Would be an excellent guitar for "light" styles of music, but not suited to hard rocking songs. Larrivee LV-03RE: Very good craftsmanship. Good sound, but not that much better than my Yamaha. Did not like the feel of the guitar. I'm not sure why, but it just didn't suit me. Would probably be fine for someone else, but it just wasn't the right guitar for me. Having explored the OM guitars in the ~$1500 range and not being satisfied, I'm now expanding my search. I heard a McPherson that blew me away, but they come with medium strings (I'm used to light) and cost ~$7000. I may eventually end up getting a McPherson, but I won't have that kind of money for several years. I'm now searching for something that blows me away for less than $7000. We'll see if I find it. Thanks again for all of the suggestions.

 

If you're still looking at smaller body styles, here are a couple of other suggestions:

 

Martin OM-21 (the sleeper in their standard line)

 

Guild F-30 Aragon

 

Guild F-40 Valencia

 

The Guilds are outstanding IMO, near your price level on the street.

 

Used:

 

Collings OM-1 style

 

Santa Cruz OM/PW (I'm hankering for one these myself)

[valentsgrif]

Gibson J-45.

[larry50]

Gibson J-45.

 

 

Or an Advanced Jumbo - a bit louder.

[Lougar]

Guild D40 Bluegrass Jubilee Dreadnought Acoustic-Electric. What you're looking for at a very good price point. I picked one up used for less than half off new price and love it.