New saddle

[melandy]

Hi y'all.

 

So I finally got around to putting some Christmas presents to use (namely a bone saddle blank and files from StewMac). The saddle is going in a Martin DC-15e.

 

I got the rough shaping done on the blank yesterday with files, and cleaned up the grooves that the files cut with some 800 grit sandpaper. I intentionally left it a little taller than the stock saddle so I have some room to work with. I eyeballed what the intonation should be from the stock saddle.

 

I swapped out saddles, and strung it back up with the old strings (used a capo to hold them on temporarily). The intonation turned out to be pretty close on all but the low E. They all need a little tweaking, but especially that one.

 

Here's where the questions start...

 

I would prefer to fix the intonation using the old strings, then put a fresh set on when its done. Will this give accurate results, or will the crustiness of the old strings throw off the intonation results?

 

Once I have the shape down, is there anything special about finishing it, or just smooth things out with a fine grit sandpaper?

 

Thanks,

-A

[bigald18]

Older strings can be off on intonation but, so can new strings.

 

BigAl

[Freeman Keller]

What Al says. I like to sacrifice a set of strings when I'd doing a setup - they get loosened and tighted so many times, then I put a brand new set on when done (strings are cheap). I also do the compensation when it is close, but not at, the final height - bringing it down the last few thousands will actually improve the intonation.

 

When I'm done I'll sand to 1500 or so, then polish with medium compound on a wheel. Some people think that makes a saddle or nut look to shiny (it will look like plastic) but thats how I like 'em.

[garthman]

Hey Melandy - long time, no see - hope you are well.

 

What Freeman says ^ ^ ^

[GuitarVlog]

Realistically, you have no absolute guarantees with microtuning and it doesn't matter whether you have old or new strings. My opinion is that you should stick with a pattern of compensation that works or that has been recommended by your manufacturer or luthier. This at least improves your odds of getting better intonation.

 

In the case of some Martins (or Martin copies), that means the 6th is lengthened, the 5th, 4th & 3rd are shortened, and the 2nd and 1st are lengthened. In the case of most classical guitars, I only lengthen the 3rd string. I would examine your stock saddle and copy the compensation pattern.

 

This video from luthier Michael Thames might be of some help if you do want to try more refined compensations.

 

[YOUTUBE]xYvF2GA8OOQ[/YOUTUBE]

[Freeman Keller]

Yeah, any attempt at "intonating" a guitar is going to be a compromise - its the nature of the beasts. I've had best luck with the method that Jasmine Tea suggested years ago - I get the saddle close to the right height but leave the top flat. Put a little piece of wire (a B string works fine) under each string and move it around until the 12th fretted note and harmonic play pretty much in tune - if you can get within 5 cents thats pretty good. Mark each side of the wire with a .3mm pencil and round the saddle so the peak is between the marks. Do all the final sanding and polishing, then bring the last few thou of action down.

 

I've done this on a couple of 12 strings - it is very time consuming and the saddle looks like a rip saw blade but the play pretty much in tune all the way up the neck.

 

There are some fundimental questions of course - that the saddle slot has the proper compensation in the first place (not always true) and that the saddle is wide enough to move the break point to where you want it. Anyway, that works for me....

[melandy]

 

Hey Melandy - long time, no see - hope you are well. What Freeman says ^ ^ ^

 

 

Doing well, Garthman. Just extremely busy, hence the delay in getting around to this.

 

I also got the open back grovers put on the uke in place of the friction pegs. Nut is still a little high, so that is still officially a work in progress.

 

-A

[melandy]

Yeah, any attempt at "intonating" a guitar is going to be a compromise - its the nature of the beasts. I've had best luck with the method that Jasmine Tea suggested years ago - I get the saddle close to the right height but leave the top flat. Put a little piece of wire (a B string works fine) under each string and move it around until the 12th fretted note and harmonic play pretty much in tune - if you can get within 5 cents thats pretty good. Mark each side of the wire with a .3mm pencil and round the saddle so the peak is between the marks. Do all the final sanding and polishing, then bring the last few thou of action down.

 

That's a good idea. Should have posted this a couple of days ago. I'll definitely do that the next time.

 

 

...and that the saddle is wide enough to move the break point to where you want it. Anyway, that works for me....

 

The saddle seems pretty thin on this Martie. IIRC, 0.090 on the micrometer. I'd like to have a little more elbow room to work with.

 

Thanks,

-A

[melandy]

 

This video from luthier Michael Thames might be of some help if you do want to try more refined compensations.

 

 

Thanks for the link to the video.

[melandy]

Well, I think I lucked out on this one, folks. Here's the scoop:

 

I brought the height down closer to what it should be in real life, and did some intonation adjustments with the old strings. It is still a wee bit high (1/64th or so), but much closer to what it should be.

 

I took off the old strings, and cleaned up the saddle. I did not have any polishing compound, but I did have some fine grit finishing paper (1500 and 2000 grit). It is not shiny, but it is nice and smooth.

 

Turns out it is really close on intonation with the new strings. 1st through 5th are spot on (when fretted at 12, one octave above open) or at least within the precision of my tuner. It's solid in the green.

 

The 6th (low E) is a few cents sharp at when fretted at 12. Whew!

 

It sounds great, but I'm sure that has more to do with the new strings than the bone saddle.

 

Plus, all 6 strings sound equally loud through the pickup, so I guess I managed not to screw that up to boot. All in all, I'm pleased with how it turned out (see attached pic).

 

Thanks,

-A

 

P.S. Just for kicks, I included a pic of the new uke tuners.