Comparison: Flip v. Zoom Q3

[masterbuilt]

I recorded the songs I did for three consecutive VOMs with the "Flip" camcorder and after purchasing the ZOOM Q3, I thought that it was an interesting comparison having the same three songs recorded with the Q3 posted for a side-by-side comparison, if you will.

 

http://www.youtube.com/PW320M/

 

Here are my initial reactions to the audio and video qualities...

 

FLIP: The video is its strong point. It handles low-light situations surprisingly well and the image quality is outstanding in just about every situation I have tried. There is very little visible grain most of the time and at an average of 25 frames-per-second, the camera does shoot pretty smooth video.

 

FLIP Audio: While the FLIP has plenty of volume, the audio sounds tinny and has no warmth to it. Some songs on guitar can be annoying with too much top-end and no bass response. Overall, however, it serves the purpose nicely.

 

Q3: Video is mediocre at best and terrible in lower-light except shooting in the new concert-mode (and then, the images are soft and grainy, although the image is light enough to see. In perfect lighting, it is a lot better, but, it cannot compete with the FLIP where imagery itself is the most important factor.

 

Q3 Audio: The ZOOM Q3 has far superior audio. There is no comparison with the FLIP and the Q3-- the Zoom is in a league of its own in that category.

 

I have to say that I would not consider the Q3 "studio quality" in that the balance is really not there. You cannot EQ the audio unless you separate it from the video signal, which can be done with the right software. I might experiment with that.

 

If you want better video image quality, pick the FLIP. If you will be shooting mostly live and in well-lit venues (outdoors, for example), choose the Q3 and enjoy the audio.

 

If you want a camera that can double as a field recorder and costs half what the H4N does, choose the Q3 and set it for audio only. It is killer in that mode.

 

So, a full review will be written for Ukulele Player Magazine-- coming in the next issue.

[blue2blue]

If you're using Windows, Sony's Vegas has consumer versions for around $100 (or less) with DVD Architect thrown in or ~$60-ish without. It allows four video and 4 stereo audio tracks (and you don't need to go to a second video track for dissolves, just set it to auto-crossfade and drop the tracks overlapping and they'll automatically crossfade. You can use your own VST and DX audio effects plug ins and it comes with a moderately full set of basic audio FX (as well as video). Much of the UI works similar to a lot of DAWs. I honestly found that I had to look up very little in the online help. Almost everything worked pretty much as would have hoped/expected. I found much to be very similar to what I'm used to in my audio DAW, Sonar. And, of course, users of Vegas' sister program, ACID, should feel right at home, as the audio interface is, I think, almost identical (right down to looping functions). [but I haven't used ACID since version 3, so don't take that as gospel.]

[rhythmguitar28]

Thanks for the comparison! In almost any guitar related video I would pick audio quality over video. I've noticed that the Flip generally has good treble response in most Youtube applications but as you said the overall sound quality is better with the Q3. I have a Canon with an external mic input that does pretty good audio in videos using a Shure SM57

http://virb.com/ryanl/videos/11335599

but the Q3 would eliminate having to mess with an external mic. I wonder if Zoom will come out with a model that takes better video in the near future as well. My understanding is that the Q3 is quite a bit bigger in size than the Flip?

[masterbuilt]

 

I wonder if Zoom will come out with a model that takes better video in the near future as well. My understanding is that the Q3 is quite a bit bigger in size than the Flip?

 

 

I'd love to see an improved model or perhaps another firmware update to improve video image processing.

 

As for the size, there really is not much difference in size between the two. Both can easily fit in a shirt pocket (side-to-side, front-to-back). The Q3 is an inch taller, space consumed by the condenser mics.

 

With either one, carry lots of "AA" batteries, you'll need them.

[masterbuilt]

You have some great audio quality there RG28.

[rhythmguitar28]

 

You have some great audio quality there RG28.

 

 

 

 

Thanks, Masterbuilt. Part of it is the share website though. VIRB has a better Bitrate (128 kbps) than Youtube. Never know when it's going to work though......temperamental.

[masterbuilt]

I have one little tidbit to add that really makes a difference...

 

When I put the videos from the Q3 on the iPod Touch, I found that the bit depth should be at least 192 for good quality audio. I settled for 256 just for kicks. The audio is excellent quality at those bit depths. The standard 128 bit depth loses a lot in translation.

 

I use "AnyVideoConverter Professional" for video conversions and it has been doing a pretty fine job for me. The AVI to MP4 conversion did not preserve the audio/video sync. However, downloading the "Flash Video" from YouTube and converting that to the MP4 format was flawless. Go figure.

[Stackabones]

Great stuff! Can't wait for the full review. When is the next issue due out?

[rhythmguitar28]

 

I use "AnyVideoConverter Professional" for video conversions and it has been doing a pretty fine job for me. The AVI to MP4 conversion did not preserve the audio/video sync. However, downloading the "Flash Video" from YouTube and converting that to the MP4 format was flawless. Go figure.

 

 

 

 

I use AVC standard version to shrink video sizes for quicker uploading. It seems to work quite well. I'm sure the Pro version is even better.

[masterbuilt]

 

I use AVC standard version to shrink video sizes for quicker uploading. It seems to work quite well. I'm sure the Pro version is even better.

 

 

The "pro" version is actually the same, but it has a lot more options for output.

[masterbuilt]

 

Great stuff! Can't wait for the full review. When is the next issue due out?

 

 

Unless the schedule changes, next weekend.

[Stackabones]

[Nightwatchman9270]

Question....I'm assuming you can't record another audio track on top of the audio on the Q3, right? So if I want to layer piano or drums over my guitar I'd be better off with the H2?

[masterbuilt]

 

Question....I'm assuming you can't record another audio track on top of the audio on the Q3, right? So if I want to layer piano or drums over my guitar I'd be better off with the H2?

 

 

There is a setting for "audio only" on the device, but there is no indication that USB can be used in any way other than data transfer.

 

The unit records a right and left channel concurrently (stereo), no multi-tracking capability.

[Glenn F]

It seems to me that there is no simple 'do-it-all' choice out there, at least on a budget. I have a Panasonic Lumix DMC FZ38, which does 720p video and has a stereo mic. I haven't really tested it out regarding the video/audio quality of music recording. The video is impressive, though not as good as a dedicated video cam. Test recording in our backyard was interesting; for two mics so close together, there was definite stereo separation. Playing back, I wasn't sure whether I was hearing the birds from my speakers, or the birds outside.

 

As for the question about adding overdubs to video: I have Logic Pro, and it is a fairly straightforward process to import the audio from the film clip, process it at will, add as many overdubs as my computer can handle, and then export that audio back to the film clip. I don't think, though, at that point, the file will be compatible to go back onto the camera, but I can foresee little reason to do that anyways.

 

Cheers,

 

Glenn

[Jersey Jack]

Glenn, can you say just a bit more about how to do this? Can you load the entire file into Logic pro (including the video) and simply process only the audio without ever separating the two? Or do you need to use another program (which one?) to separate out the audio to send to Logic and then return it after processing?

[LiFeStArTs@40]

 

Question....I'm assuming you can't record another audio track on top of the audio on the Q3, right? So if I want to layer piano or drums over my guitar I'd be better off with the H2?

 

 

I think what you've been asking on a few of these threads is more or less the process of overdubbing/multiple tracks. I've got a Zoom H2 that I use as a USB mic directly into Garage band. The Zoom has multiple channels but you can't over dub or seperate the tracks. I'm not sure why I'd want to... However, that's easily done in Garageband.

[Glenn F]

 

Glenn, can you say just a bit more about how to do this? Can you load the entire file into Logic pro (including the video) and simply process only the audio without ever separating the two? Or do you need to use another program (which one?) to separate out the audio to send to Logic and then return it after processing?

 

 

Sure.

 

Logic has specific commands to facilitate this. The first one is 'Open Movie.' Select clip from folder or desktop, and the clip appears in Logic. Next, select the command 'import audio from movie.' Logic will automatically separate the audio track from the video. At that point, you can do whatever you want to the audio, including completely replacing the recorded sound, or, merely adding overdubs. When you've got it how you want it, you select the command 'export audio to movie.' You will be prompted a couple of times, and there is one slight catch that is a quirk of Logic: You will be prompted to export the original audio file. If you do this, then any changes you made in Logic will not be in the exported audio. You have to de-select the original file in the box, and, woila! Modified tracks; Within Logic, there are so many options to manipulate the sound, from just adding a touch of reverb, to using the mastering tools. Except for that one little catch, the process is very simple, given that there are dedicated commands for it in the menu. No other software is necessary.

 

Cheers,

 

Glenn

 

EDIT: I just did a test of my Lumix, imported it into iMovie, and I have to say I am pretty impressed. The lighting isn't great in here (very overcast day), yet the video is sharp and clear. The sound is perfectly adequate, given what it is. I am sure that the Zoom sounds a bit better, but I find this perfectly fine, especially given that I can post-process the sound as described above. How much does the Q3 cost? For a reasonable amount of money, I would suggest buying a 'real' camera with decent video/sound capabilities. My Lumix FZ38 didn't break the bank!

[masterbuilt]

The Q3 was $199 and I got a bit of a discount through Amazon.