high e & b strings hit first fret when chording

[acousticDave]

Hi there - my buddy is having this issue when playing open chords, his high e and b strings sometimes brush against the first fret. What's the best fix: new nut, more neck relief, shim under the saddle? Grazie.

 

 

[katopp]

Hi there - my buddy is having this issue when playing open chords, his high e and b strings sometimes brush against the first fret. What's the best fix: new nut, more neck relief, shim under the saddle? Grazie.

 

Relief will probably not help, shimming the saddle would, but you would end up with a way too high action higher up, so I would go for some plastic dust and superglue, tape off the fretboard and headstock and build up a bit of plastic and superglue to raise the strings sufficiently. Then cut a new nut after that model.

[revans513]

There are two probable causes:

1 A high fret. You can use a straight edge and see if it's a high fret. Being the first fret makes it somewhat challenging to see it. Put the straight edge from the bottom of where the nut is filed for the strings and see if it rocks or if when you get down and sight it if it looks too high. If it is, then you'll have to be sure the fret is seated properly, if it is then you'll have to file it, WITH A FRET FILE. Do not use a flat file or anything of the sort. The fret has to be crowned.

 

2 The nut is cut too low. You will have to remove the exisitng nut and install a new one.

 

If you aren't sure you can do these things, they are both pretty inexpensive to have done by a professional, which is what I would recommend if you don't have much experience.

 

Hope this helps.

[acousticDave]

Thanks! I was leaning towards a new nut as well, and wanted to check in here first to see what the hive mind recommended before committing to anything.

[Freeman Keller]

It could be any of those things, or a combination, and could also be a high fret. Too little relief will often cause buzzing in the first few frets, but it is seldom just one. Too low of nut slots will certainly cause buzzing at the first fret, but that could also be combined with low action all the way up the fretboard. And of course a high fret could be the cause, but it is pretty hard to check the first one (normally you look for a fret that "rocks" but there is no zero fret to be the other side of the rocker...)

 

What I recommend whenever someone is having this kind of problem is before you do anything measure everything. Come back to the forum with the relief, clearance of each string at the first and 12th frets. I recently posted a thread called "Setup" where I show how to do this and the two Sick Guitar articles at the Annex show it in more detail.

[Freeman Keller]

 

Thanks! I was leaning towards a new nut as well, and wanted to check in here first to see what the hive mind recommended before committing to anything.

 

 

 

A new nut will be expensive - it has to be hand made to fit each guitar. Figure 50 bucks or more. Unfortunately buying the tools to do it yourself is several hundred. Lets make sure you need one first.

[katopp]

 

A new nut will be expensive - it has to be hand made to fit each guitar. Figure 50 bucks or more. Unfortunately buying the tools to do it yourself is several hundred. Lets make sure you need one first.

 

 

50 Bucks?

I had one made out of bone for my EG Tak and it was

[Freeman Keller]

 

50 Bucks? I had one made out of bone for my EG Tak and it was

[acousticDave]

I came across an awesome, easy to read, primer on nut replacement in my research and thought it might be useful for others:

http://www.fretnotguitarrepair.com/nuts.htm

 

Also, anyone have experience with the pre-slotted Graph Tech nuts?

http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/Graph-Tech-TUSQ-Martin-Acoustic-Guitar-Slotted-Nut?sku=360610

[Freeman Keller]

 

I came across an awesome, easy to read, primer on nut replacement in my research and thought it might be useful for others: http://www.fretnotguitarrepair.com/nuts.htm Also, anyone have experience with the pre-slotted Graph Tech nuts? http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/Graph-Tech-TUSQ-Martin-Acoustic-Guitar-Slotted-Nut?sku=360610

 

 

Quoting from your own link

 

I have most popular sizes of Tusq

[acousticDave]

it doesn't seem that hard to take the old nut, measure it vs. a pre-slotted graph tech, and then sand down if the action is too high. and also, what's the worst that could possibly happen? If I botch it, I just put his old nut back in and he's out $13... what am I missing?

[Freeman Keller]

 

it doesn't seem that hard to take the old nut, measure it vs. a pre-slotted graph tech, and then sand down if the action is too high. and also, what's the worst that could possibly happen? If I botch it, I just put his old nut back in and he's out $13... what am I missing?

 

 

When I make a nut from scatch, these are the steps

 

1 - fit the blank to the nut slot. Slots vary in width, some are flat on the bottom, some are angled with the headstock. They are different widths depending on the fretboard width and different headstocks have different tangents. One of the most important things for me is to not have any edges that you feel when fretting in the first positions.

 

2 - I then space the strings to the outside edges of the fretboard. Different player like their E strings closer to the edge (thumb fretters) or farther (sting benders). 0.125 is a good compromise, but I've seen them as close as 0.100 and as far as 0.150.

 

3 - Strings can either be spaced on equal centers or with equal spaces between them (which compensates for the diameter of each string). I prefer the latter, a classical player would like the former.

 

4 - When setting the string gaps I shoot for the zero fret line, but usually find that I'm just a hair above it. Bass strings take a little more clearance than the trebles - I like to work my way down as I adjust the rest of the action. Things might get tweaked if the player does a lot of slide (my recent thread "Setup" was for a slide player).

 

5 - I try to make the slots a couple of thou bigger than the string gauge that will be used. Most of the time I simply use the next bigger file, but sometimes that means wrapping 600 grip paper over the file and taking a couple of swipes.

 

6 - Angle the string exits towards the tuners, both for downforce and appearance. Particularly important with slotheads.

 

7 - Bass strings should be slightly deeper than one half the diameter. Trebles should be similar but I think that looks wonky so they end up a little deeper.

 

8 - When its all done I try to make the nut look real good - round the edges and give it a final buffing on the wheel.

 

Other than that, its not too hard.

 

http://www.thekrashsite.com/annex/tech/fk-nut.htm

[acousticDave]

the graph tech is pre-slotted and already fitted to the guitar so luckily I won't have to do any of that except make minor adjustments...

[Yamaneck]

 

it doesn't seem that hard to take the old nut, measure it vs. a pre-slotted graph tech, and then sand down if the action is too high. and also, what's the worst that could possibly happen? If I botch it, I just put his old nut back in and he's out $13... what am I missing?

 

 

You don't "sand it down", except for overall height. Each slot needs to be individually set.

 

You're missing experience.

[Yamaneck]

+1:thu:

[DeepEnd]

 

You don't "sand it down", except for overall height. Each slot needs to be individually set. You're missing experience.

 

Actually, I do that. The factory replacement nut for my Ibanez was a tad high so I simply sanded down the bottom. The slots averaged out about where they should be. Unorthodox but it gets the job done for the most part. There are times when "experience" is simply another word for perpetuating "the way it's always been done." In that case, Bob Taylor has very little experience.

[Gary Palmer]

Hi there - my buddy is having this issue when playing open chords, his high e and b strings sometimes brush against the first fret. What's the best fix: new nut, more neck relief, shim under the saddle? Grazie.

 

It seems more like a fretting technique issue than a nut, neck relief and saddle problem, but everyone's info regarding set-up is pretty much there.

[acousticDave]

Hi Gary - I played the guitar and experienced the same problems as he did, I think it's definitely a setup issue.

 

From what I can tell the replacement nuts are built to match the specifications of the guitar but sometimes they err on the high side and one might need to sand it down slightly to taste, as the previous poster pointed out.

 

I do indeed lack experience, replacing a nut is something I've never had to do up until now, and also I'm not that picky about gear either - if it sounds nice and plays well, it's enough for me. Thanks everyone for your thoughts and opinions.

 

 

[Gary Palmer]

Hi Gary - I played the guitar and experienced the same problems as he did, I think it's definitely a setup issue. From what I can tell the replacement nuts are built to match the specifications of the guitar but sometimes they err on the high side and one might need to sand it down slightly to taste, as the previous poster pointed out. I do indeed lack experience, replacing a nut is something I've never had to do up until now, and also I'm not that picky about gear either - if it sounds nice and plays well, it's enough for me. Thanks everyone for your thoughts and opinions.

 

Regardless of string spacing, the vast majority of replacement nuts need setting up, as their slots are typically high. Be certain the slot spacing matches that of the existing nut before carrying out any work.

 

Information on set-up, adjustments and repairs can also be found at;

 

www.frets.com

 

I wish you luck.