Gibson raided by the Feds again.

[Queequeg]

 

But the manpower and resources ($) could be better used in addiction treatment, on the border with Mexico, or FBI or IRS. The cost to taxpayers of a federal investigation and trial is easily in the hundreds of thousands. Over a checkmark on a form? The width of a fretboard compels the shutting down of a viable corporation employing hundreds, the lost income, lost empoyee wages, suppliers/vendors getting stiffed, ect. I just wonder if this was Taylor or Martin, would the nodding smirks of approval be so forthcoming.

 

I wouldn't trivialize fraud as a checked box on a form, and my point is that in a country of 300 million people you don't swap resources on the fly. The immigration people cant be reallocated to work in the defense department, nor can their budgets be commingled or swapped. Not at the President's whim and not quickly.

You can't turn an aircraft carrier on a dime and the wheels of government turn slowly.

[roughtrade]

But the manpower and resources ($) could be better used in addiction treatment, on the border with Mexico, or FBI or IRS. The cost to taxpayers of a federal investigation and trial is easily in the hundreds of thousands. Over a checkmark on a form? The width of a fretboard compels the shutting down of a viable corporation employing hundreds, the lost income, lost empoyee wages, suppliers/vendors getting stiffed, ect. I just wonder if this was Taylor or Martin, would the nodding smirks of approval be so forthcoming.

Haven't really seen so much as smirks of approval, more a solid resignation to wait for all the facts to emerge. No one is happy that Gibson has been raided, then again, no one should be happy to allow criminal activity to continue unabated. Of course, you have to choose your poison. I don't believe this is political. 5k contribution doesn't even hit the radar in a POTUS election. I would be crazy to think that it does. 25k, maybe, for one dinner. I believe we will have to wait and see.

[Pine Apple Slim]

Henry's reaction to the whole mess stinks to high heaven.

If HIS company was innocent of INTENTIONALLY falsifying documents, he would not be on conservative media, politicizing & complaining about the Feds wanting to shut him down over a couple of shipments of ebony and rosewood.

I'm sure they have plenty more on hand, or available through other channels, that the effect of the raid on production is negligible.

If it was anybody else, I might be persuaded there was some government overreach, but HJ has zero credibility with me.

[guitarcapo]

It would be great if they went after Medicare fraud with these resources.

[guildfire]

It's a waste of time and taxpayer money IMO.

[Queequeg]

 

It would be great if they went after Medicare fraud with these resources.

 

 

The government's relentless pursuit of Medicare fraud goes on unimpeded, and never as a stepchild to Customs and immigration. Medicare has a bullseye on it these days. Huge bust in Michigan a couple weeks ago.

The owner of 21 pharmacies and a bunch of doctors scamming the system. But individual small time pikers don't make the headlines.

[roughtrade]

It would be great if they went after Medicare fraud with these resources.

 

You want the FWS to monitor medicare?

[guitarcapo]

 

The government's relentless pursuit of Medicare fraud goes on unimpeded, and never as a stepchild to Customs and immigration. Medicare has a bullseye on it these days. Huge bust in Michigan a couple weeks ago. The owner of 21 pharmacies and a bunch of doctors scamming the system. But individual small time pikers don't make the headlines.

 

 

unimpeded? can I have some of that weed too?

[guitarcapo]

You want the FWS to monitor medicare?

 

no just divert all their funding to someplace better spent that costs taxpayers billions.

[guitarcapo]

You want the FWS to monitor medicare?

 

no just divert their entire budget to an agency that will if THIS is how they spend resources. I'd rather federal law enforcement go after fraud that costs Americans billions over this bull{censored} that cost Indians a few jobs

[roughtrade]

 

no just divert their entire budget to an agency that will if THIS is how they spend resources. I'd rather federal law enforcement go after fraud that costs Americans billions over this bull{censored} that cost Indians a few jobs

 

 

What if Gibson is breaking the law?

 

Let them go?

 

Can I do that?

 

That's a deep, deep hole...

[knockwood]

 

What if Gibson is breaking the law? Let them go? Can I do that? That's a deep, deep hole...

 

 

If they are breaking the law - and it is not yet clear that they are - does the offense in this case warrant the kind of attention/investment/response they are getting? It doesn't seem to me that it does. I wouldn't suggest that we stop paying attention to laws altogether. But realistically, most of us break laws to one extent or another. But because of limited resources, the expense of prosecuting, etc., obviously it is not possible for law enforcement to attend to every single offense ever committed. The way this case looks to me - and granted, I do not have all the facts - law enforcement is doing a poor job of prioritizing its cases in this instance. It bothers me that they are going after an American manufacturing institution in the middle of a truly hideous economic crisis over what appears to be an issue of vague technicality. Not one single Wall Street douchebag has faced prosecution over the myriad abuses that contributed to the recession, but it makes sense to focus LE attention on cracking down on a company for potentially violating the export regulations of Madagascar and/or India?

 

I guess the issue of whether Gibson is or is not guilty of anything illegal or improper in this case is a major one for some people. For me, the troubling thing about this case is that I cannot understand why the government bodies involved in this investigation feel that it is a priority, with so much else going on that is infinitely more egregious. Something just doesn't smell right - somewhere in this, someone has a personal beef with Gibson. That's what my gut says, anyway.

 

One parallel that keeps coming to mind for me is personal income tax. We have something like 17,000 pages of existing tax code. Personally, I find it utterly impossible to understand most of it and, by extension, to know with regard to every item in my own filings whether I am acting 100% according to the law. And I think we all know that many or perhaps most people are guilty of fudging their taxes to one extent or another, not to rip off the government, but because there is so much detail in tax law that it is just frickin' confusing sometimes and no one wants to spend 40 years doing his taxes, and yes one can always hire an accountant (I couldn't afford to do this last year), but do most of us really have a clue whether all the info they are providing, for which we are ultimately responsible as individuals, is entirely accurate? I don't. If I did, I'd never have to use an accountant. And I think import/export laws are very similar in terms of their complications. As I mentioned before, the company I worked for for over a decade very routinely was guilty of bull{censored} and falsification on import/export documentation. I honestly do not believe there was a viable choice, because abiding by absolutely every tenet of Customs' laws would have shut us down altogether or at best would have made doing business so cumbersome and expensive that we would eventually have shut down... I cannot help but be somewhat sympathetic to anyone in that position.

[roughtrade]

 

If they are breaking the law - and it is not yet clear that they are - does the offense in this case warrant the kind of attention/investment/response they are getting? It doesn't seem to me that it does. I wouldn't suggest that we stop paying attention to laws altogether. But realistically, most of us break laws to one extent or another. But because of limited resources, the expense of prosecuting, etc., obviously it is not possible for law enforcement to attend to every single offense ever committed. The way this case looks to me - and granted, I do not have all the facts - law enforcement is doing a poor job of prioritizing its cases in this instance. It bothers me that they are going after an American manufacturing institution in the middle of a truly hideous economic crisis over what appears to be an issue of vague technicality. Not one single Wall Street douchebag has faced prosecution over the myriad abuses that contributed to the recession, but it makes sense to focus LE attention on cracking down on a company for potentially violating the export regulations of Madagascar and/or India? I guess the issue of whether Gibson is or is not guilty of anything illegal or improper in this case is a major one for some people. For me, the troubling thing about this case is that I cannot understand why the government bodies involved in this investigation feel that it is a priority, with so much else going on that is infinitely more egregious. Something just doesn't smell right - somewhere in this, someone has a personal beef with Gibson. That's what my gut says, anyway. One parallel that keeps coming to mind for me is personal income tax. We have something like 17,000 pages of existing tax code. Personally, I find it utterly impossible to understand most of it and, by extension, to know with regard to every item in my own filings whether I am acting 100% according to the law. And I think we all know that many or perhaps most people are guilty of fudging their taxes to one extent or another, not to rip off the government, but because there is so much detail in tax law that it is just frickin' confusing sometimes and no one wants to spend 40 years doing his taxes, and yes one can always hire an accountant (I couldn't afford to do this last year), but do most of us really have a clue whether all the info they are providing, for which we are ultimately responsible as individuals, is entirely accurate? I don't. If I did, I'd never have to use an accountant. And I think import/export laws are very similar in terms of their complications. As I mentioned before, the company I worked for for over a decade very routinely was guilty of bull{censored} and falsification on import/export documentation. I honestly do not believe there was a viable choice, because abiding by absolutely every tenet of Customs' laws would have shut us down altogether or at best would have made doing business so cumbersome and expensive that we would eventually have shut down... I cannot help but be somewhat sympathetic to anyone in that position.

 

 

For me the issue is that we should wait and see. All the talk here and in the media is based on gross speculation. I can understand the angst, but to take a side before the facts are in is ludicrous and based on speculation. Your arguement is implying that it is just a clerical mistake, and it may be, idk.

 

Why the Lacey Act is being brought to the forefront, idk. Why the raid on Gibson is getting so much attention is because Gibson is an American icon.

 

We may pick and choose which laws we follow, but we have to be prepared for the consequences of our choices.

[knockwood]

 

For me the issue is that we should wait and see. All the talk here and in the media is based on gross speculation. I can understand the angst, but to take a side before the facts are in is ludicrous and based on speculation. Your arguement is implying that it is just a clerical mistake, and it may be, idk. Why the Lacey Act is being brought to the forefront, idk. Why the raid on Gibson is getting so much attention is because Gibson is an American icon. We may pick and choose which laws we follow, but we have to be prepared for the consequences of our choices.

 

 

To be clear, I'm not suggesting that anyone made a clerical mistake. In fact, I'd be very surprised if Gibson - and anyone else in the industry - does not routinely, deliberately falsify documentation. My position is that I couldn't care less whether or not they are guilty of doing so. Who is the victim? Foreign labor?

 

I'd love to wait for all the facts, but given that the government has thus far not seen fit to fully explain its actions against Gibson in 2009, nor to formally charge Gibson in that case, I seriously doubt that full double-sided facts will be forthcoming. I don't think there is anything wrong with basing an opinion on speculation, given that (A) speculation is all I've got to go on and (B) my opinion on the matter is of absolutely no consequence anyway. In the end, I'm just some guy having a conversation on an internet forum.

[roughtrade]

 

To be clear, I'm not suggesting that anyone made a clerical mistake. In fact, I'd be very surprised if Gibson - and anyone else in the industry - does not routinely, deliberately falsify documentation. My position is that I couldn't care less whether or not they are guilty of doing so. Who is the victim? Foreign labor? I'd love to wait for all the facts, but given that the government has thus far not seen fit to fully explain its actions against Gibson in 2009, nor to formally charge Gibson in that case, I seriously doubt that full double-sided facts will be forthcoming. I don't think there is anything wrong with basing an opinion on speculation, given that (A) speculation is all I've got to go on and (B) my opinion on the matter is of absolutely no consequence anyway. In the end, I'm just some guy having a conversation on an internet forum.

 

 

You may be right that there will be no resolution. Our government does not admit mistakes. They will, however, prosecute if they have a case. Maybe we can speculate from that.

 

As far as the documentation, idk, if a boy lies to me about one thing, he'll probably lie about something else. Maybe the FWS should call the IRS for help, idk.

[RevRomansky]

 

You may be right that there will be no resolution. Our government does not admit mistakes. They will, however, prosecute if they have a case. Maybe we can speculate from that. As far as the documentation, idk, if a boy lies to me about one thing, he'll probably lie about something else. Maybe the FWS should call the IRS for help, idk.

 

 

Or maybe the Department of Diversity and Inclusion.

[Queequeg]

 

unimpeded? can I have some of that weed too?

 

 

Smoke this, brainiac.

http://www.pressandguide.com/articles/2011/08/03/news/doc4e399a3a7d74d802180146.txt

[roughtrade]

 

Or maybe the Department of Diversity and Inclusion.

 

 

Are you implying that Gibson is a racist organization? I don't believe it.

[RevRomansky]

 

Are you implying that Gibson is a racist organization? I don't believe it.

 

 

No, that was a joke. Obama started this department about 2 weeks ago to give everyone but white male heterosexuals special protected status. The joke was meant to say that it's ridiculous that Fish and Wildlife is spearheading this ludicrous and jack-booted attack on an American corporation.

 

Now that I've explained it, do you think it was kind of ironically funny, Socratically speaking.

[guitarcapo]

 

Smoke this, brainiac. http://www.pressandguide.com/articles/2011/08/03/news/doc4e399a3a7d74d802180146.txt

 

 

If you think that the government is doing a great job fighting Medicare fraud I really want some of your weed. Is it that sticky kind because it's so full of resin? I love that. For every arrest there's probably 40 or 50 guys getting away scott free. It's common knowledge. There was a 60 Minutes piece just a few months ago. Check it out.

[TunaNugget]

 

The joke was meant to say that it's ridiculous that Fish and Wildlife is spearheading this ludicrous and jack-booted attack on an American corporation.

 

 

What's funny to me is how only hippies used to complain that the cops were out to get them for being so unreasonable as to enforce laws. Peace out, man, fight the power. Free love!

[Queequeg]

 

If you think that the government is doing a great job fighting Medicare fraud I really want some of your weed. Is it that sticky kind because it's so full of resin? I love that. For every arrest there's probably 40 or 50 guys getting away scott free. It's common knowledge. There was a 60 Minutes piece just a few months ago. Check it out.

 

 

three things that bore me are

1. drugs

2. television

3. your insults

I am interested in stats, though. So proof-source your remarks, "For every arrest there's probably 40 or 50 guys getting away scott free".

I think you pulled that out of your... um, the air.