Garrison Guitars purchaser Gibson Guitars voids all Garrison Warranties

[lovemachine97]

Hey man! So, are they really going to brand the old Garrison guitars as "Gibsons"? I mean, are the guitars still going to have Garrison on the headstock but also include a "by Gibson" moniker? Or will it just be Gibson? It would seem that if they go the "Garrison" "by Gibson" route they will cheapen the name somewhat since we are used to seeing these types of guitars as being cheap imitations (ie Squire and PRS) of "better" quality instruments. I played a lefty 12 string and 6 string Garrison while visiting LA about about a year ago. I didn't care for the 6 string (it was nice but I was looking for something else), the 12 string was incredible though, it was probably my favorite 12 string acoustic ever (though being a lefty I haven't played many). I would have bought it but I almost got into a fight with the store owner (don't ask ) because I asked if he would come down on the price. Evidently haggling is not recommended in Los Angeles!

 

Well, apparently no one at Garrison or Gibson can answer these questions. I would ask my Garrison rep, but they fired him, so he doesn't know. Our new Garrison rep is our old Epiphone rep, though we dropped that line when Gibson more than doubled the re-qualifying buy-in in our second year. Most articles I have read said that Gibson will appear on the guitar, but the guitars will remain "Garrisons". So, we'll see what happens. We won't be carrying them, so I'll have to find out by seeing them somewhere else.

 

As far as haggling, I have to admit, sometimes it just gets old. Most are willing to bargain, but it depends upon how the day has gone, or how the customer approaches the price subject. On a Garrison, it is not a big deal, because their Minimum Advertised Price is extremely high, usually only 10% off of retail. So when a customer is interested, I would discount it the average MAP amount, to 30%, and I still made a decent commission, the store made an average profit, and everyone is happy. BUT, when I get people on my ass all day, sometimes I get short and I get pissed off. I have never challenged a fight, lol, but I have told people I will absolutely NOT discount the item.

 

Here is how NOT to approach a salesman, lol:: We have a Gibson SG in our store on consignment for $899 with a hard case. The guitar MAPs at 999 with a soft case. The guitar has technically never been used. The original owner only likes guitars with trem systems, so he sold it to a bandmate, who didn't want it and decided to consign it with us. Is the owner asking too much? Yes. But we explained that to him, and he still wanted to have us sell it for him.

 

Anyways, a customer comes up to me and says, "You guys are still way too expensive on that. What the hell are you guys thinking? That's why I'll go somewhere else. They've got it at guitar Center for $650. And it retails at $1650." He had SUCH a bad attitude. Besides, it DOESN'T retail for $1650, and iif it did, it wouldn't be tagged at $650. My reply was a sarcastic "Congratulations," and I walked away.

 

If he had approached me by saying, "Hey, I think they've got this same guitar new at GC for $650. How come this is $899?" then I would have been much nicer to him, and maybe been willing to call the owner and see if he would accept a lower offer.

 

So, if you find a salesman or owner who has had people just breaking his balls all day, then a guy like the one I just described came in, and then YOU came in, I can totally see where the owner could snap.

 

I don't excuse his behavior it, and it is not your fault, but I can understand it.

 

People twist my arm on the cheapest crap. I sold a guy a bone saddle from Taylor at a 30% discount off of list the other day and he got pissed and tried to bargain with me, not to mention countless a-holes everyday thinking they should get anything in my store for free, and I should pay their sales tax.

 

So it gets old. And it annoys me. I discount more purchases to people that don't ask me to discount it than I do to people that ask. Sorry about your bad experience trying to negotiate, I am sure that owner was WAY out of line. But like I said, it all depends upon the day and time. I find that I am much more willing to negotiate in the morning when I am fresh, than in the evening when I just want to go home, despite whether I have or haven't sold anything all day.

 

Honestly, I sell pianos, and most of my piano customers, who may fork out $17,000 CASH, and give me a GREAT commission, are usually much nicer about bargaining, and the time it takes to sell one is usually WAY less than a guitar. Guitar players, on the average, aren't great customers. The prick to nice guy ratio in guitar customers is way higher than in any other genre. I mean, piano sales are so much simpler for so much more money, it is ridiculous.

 

So as I know you are a cool guy, just keep in mind what the sales guy deals with all day. Find a sales guy you like, and work with him. You can build a great relationship. I have a lot of customers whom I really respect, and they really respect me. My favorite time of day is when those guys come in--and sometimes, they just come in to chat. and I am actually in a better mood afterwards, even if they don't buy anything, because dealing with them is a breath of fresh air.

 

Bottom line, {censored} that guy who tried to fight you and go somewhere where they treat you kindly. And go there earlier in the day, lol.

[Hudman]

I think that legally, Gibson will be responsible for honoring the Garrison warranty.

 

I will be shocked if this proves to be true.

[lovemachine97]

 

I think that legally, Gibson will be responsible for honoring the Garrison warranty. I will be shocked if this proves to be true.

 

 

Well, there is no question whether or not it is true. It's when and if someone takes them to court.

 

Because legally, I'd imagine in order to have standing to sue, someone would have to have a warranty claim that is denied, and then be willing to take them to court over it.

 

But until that happens, this will remain their policy, unless they just get bombarded with bad press, and even then, in my experience with Gibson, bad reputation won't change a thing.

 

Of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[leftyjazzbass]

Well, apparently no one at Garrison or Gibson can answer these questions. I would ask my Garrison rep, but they fired him, so he doesn't know. Our new Garrison rep is our old Epiphone rep, though we dropped that line when Gibson more than doubled the re-qualifying buy-in in our second year. Most articles I have read said that Gibson will appear on the guitar, but the guitars will remain "Garrisons". So, we'll see what happens. We won't be carrying them, so I'll have to find out by seeing them somewhere else. As far as haggling, I have to admit, sometimes it just gets old. Most are willing to bargain, but it depends upon how the day has gone, or how the customer approaches the price subject. On a Garrison, it is not a big deal, because their Minimum Advertised Price is extremely high, usually only 10% off of retail. So when a customer is interested, I would discount it the average MAP amount, to 30%, and I still made a decent commission, the store made an average profit, and everyone is happy. BUT, when I get people on my ass all day, sometimes I get short and I get pissed off. I have never challenged a fight, lol, but I have told people I will absolutely NOT discount the item. Here is how NOT to approach a salesman, lol:: We have a Gibson SG in our store on consignment for $899 with a hard case. The guitar MAPs at 999 with a soft case. The guitar has technically never been used. The original owner only likes guitars with trem systems, so he sold it to a bandmate, who didn't want it and decided to consign it with us. Is the owner asking too much? Yes. But we explained that to him, and he still wanted to have us sell it for him. Anyways, a customer comes up to me and says, "You guys are still way too expensive on that. What the hell are you guys thinking? That's why I'll go somewhere else. They've got it at guitar Center for $650. And it retails at $1650." He had SUCH a bad attitude. Besides, it DOESN'T retail for $1650, and iif it did, it wouldn't be tagged at $650. My reply was a sarcastic "Congratulations," and I walked away. If he had approached me by saying, "Hey, I think they've got this same guitar new at GC for $650. How come this is $899?" then I would have been much nicer to him, and maybe been willing to call the owner and see if he would accept a lower offer. So, if you find a salesman or owner who has had people just breaking his balls all day, then a guy like the one I just described came in, and then YOU came in, I can totally see where the owner could snap. I don't excuse his behavior it, and it is not your fault, but I can understand it. People twist my arm on the cheapest crap. I sold a guy a bone saddle from Taylor at a 30% discount off of list the other day and he got pissed and tried to bargain with me, not to mention countless a-holes everyday thinking they should get anything in my store for free, and I should pay their sales tax. So it gets old. And it annoys me. I discount more purchases to people that don't ask me to discount it than I do to people that ask. Sorry about your bad experience trying to negotiate, I am sure that owner was WAY out of line. But like I said, it all depends upon the day and time. I find that I am much more willing to negotiate in the morning when I am fresh, than in the evening when I just want to go home, despite whether I have or haven't sold anything all day. Honestly, I sell pianos, and most of my piano customers, who may fork out $17,000 CASH, and give me a GREAT commission, are usually much nicer about bargaining, and the time it takes to sell one is usually WAY less than a guitar. Guitar players, on the average, aren't great customers. The prick to nice guy ratio in guitar customers is way higher than in any other genre. I mean, piano sales are so much simpler for so much more money, it is ridiculous. So as I know you are a cool guy, just keep in mind what the sales guy deals with all day. Find a sales guy you like, and work with him. You can build a great relationship. I have a lot of customers whom I really respect, and they really respect me. My favorite time of day is when those guys come in--and sometimes, they just come in to chat. and I am actually in a better mood afterwards, even if they don't buy anything, because dealing with them is a breath of fresh air. Bottom line, {censored} that guy who tried to fight you and go somewhere where they treat you kindly. And go there earlier in the day, lol.

 

 

Nah, I'm extremely polite when dealing with anyone during business stuff (it's almost sickening). I have worked nearly everything (from Taco Bell drive through to United States Marine), I make a point of treating everyone politely. This guy was shutting down his store and I guess he was pretending all his stuff was already discounted (some were, the Garrison was not). I pointed out that it was basically the same price that I could get anywhere and the dude went completely nuts. I told him to shut up for a moment so that I could tell him something (he did). So I told him to go {censored} himself and that I could see why he was going out of business. I then went back to the wall and stuck the guitar back in it's original place. On my way out I heard him say that he wanted to shoot me (I'm not kidding, he didn't say it to me but he whispered it to one of his workers), I stopped in my tracks and asked him to repeat what he just said. He intelligently decided not to repeat what he had said, so I explained to him that it would be a good idea to shut his mouth for the rest of the day so that he wouldn't have to get his ass handed to him the same day he closed down his store.

 

I chalked it up to me being in LA.

[peavey_impact]

That really sucks. Garrison are awesome, awesome guitars.

[DonK]

Nah, I'm extremely polite when dealing with anyone during business stuff (it's almost sickening). I have worked nearly everything (from Taco Bell drive through to United States Marine), I make a point of treating everyone politely. This guy was shutting down his store and I guess he was pretending all his stuff was already discounted (some were, the Garrison was not). I pointed out that it was basically the same price that I could get anywhere and the dude went completely nuts. I told him to shut up for a moment so that I could tell him something (he did). So I told him to go {censored} himself and that I could see why he was going out of business. I then went back to the wall and stuck the guitar back in it's original place. On my way out I heard him say that he wanted to shoot me (I'm not kidding, he didn't say it to me but he whispered it to one of his workers), I stopped in my tracks and asked him to repeat what he just said. He intelligently decided not to repeat what he had said, so I explained to him that it would be a good idea to shut his mouth for the rest of the day so that he wouldn't have to get his ass handed to him the same day he closed down his store. I chalked it up to me being in LA.

 

There's a nearby local store that sells exclusively used, vintage stuff, mostly high-end things like 50's & 60's Fenders etc. A friend went in there to buy a vintage Tubescreamer. Under the theory that it never hurts to ask, he very politely inquired whether the owner would knock $10 off. The guy went ballistic and then refused to sell him the pedal at any price. He had to get a 3rd friend (the owner had already seen me) to go back a couple of days later and buy it. And this is on the EAST COAST, so it's not just an LA thing! (suburbs of Washington, DC).

[guitarcapo]

There's a nearby local store that sells exclusively used, vintage stuff, mostly high-end things like 50's & 60's Fenders etc. A friend went in there to buy a vintage Tubescreamer. Under the theory that it never hurts to ask, he very politely inquired whether the owner would knock $10 off. The guy went ballistic and then refused to sell him the pedal at any price. He had to get a 3rd friend (the owner had already seen me) to go back a couple of days later and buy it. And this is on the EAST COAST, so it's not just an LA thing! (suburbs of Washington, DC).

 

Why would he reward that behavior by buying the pedal instead of talking bad about them all over town? That's what I'd do.

[babablowfish]

Hey guitarcapo - You are killing me with those amazing avatars!

[lovemachine97]

Well, MI Retailer has their story up regarding this issue:

 

Gibson Will Not Accept Garrison Warranties

(Port Washington, NY - August 6, 2007) Several dealers were extremely concerned upon receiving an Aug. 1 e-mail stating Gibson would not honor warranty repairs or replacements of Garrison instruments sold before July 3. Calls placed to Garrison in St. John, Newfoundland, Canada, went unanswered, so the Retailer could not find out if the July 3 date referred to when dealers purchased the guitars, or when they sold it to customers. Gibson recently purchased Garrison.

 

In the e-mail, written by Jennifer Vincent, inventory control coordinator for Garrison, she stated:

[fatback]

 

All of this reminds me of an old (mid-50s) saying in the UK: "Screw you, Jack, I'm all right!" This is quoted, BTW, in the lyrics to Pink Floyd's "Money". What it means to me, with regard to Chris Griffiths, is "I got mine, too bad about all the rest of you." Now, Griffiths may be a stand up guy - or maybe he doesn't really care. But, absent anything forthcoming from him or his representatives, I would have to believe the latter. If not, it certainly would behoove him to post something somewhere - even if it's to say he can't really get into it but he's working on it. Otherwise, it's a pretty crappy way to do business. My take on the before/after thing is that it applies to the date the guitar was sold to the dealer, not the date the dealer sells the guitar...which could be waaaaay down the road. I could be wrong.

 

 

 

Pull up the ladder Jack I'm all right - may be a tad closer.

 

Phil

[EvilTwin]

Hey guitarcapo - You are killing me with those amazing avatars!

 

Something that always brightens the day.

[knockwood]

No warranty claims will be accepted, no return authorizations will be given, no call-tags will be issued, and returned instruments, sold prior to the purchase, will be refused. Over the past few years, Garrison has become very well respected for our warranty policy and attention to customer service; so we find this very difficult

[lovemachine97]

Well let me start out by saying that I don't know for sure who is to blame here. With the new 'bankruptcy' story, it sure paints Gibson in a better light, and Garrison/Chris Griffiths in a bad one. So I don't know. The thing is--I can't find any info on Garrison or Chris Griffiths filing bankruptcy. And Gibson doesn't have the info either.

 

So, rumors around the campfire I am hearing today say that Griffiths wanted a big payday, Gibson wanted the factory, and to cover his own ass, he quietly filed bankruptcy before the purchase. In which case, he's a selfish ass who must have never cared about his product in the first place.

[whit townsend]

Yes, Its ultimately Garrisons fault for not protecting their existing customers.

Knowing Gibson's way of doing business, it dosn't suprise me that they cleverly & conveneintly left that reponsibility in the previous owners pockets.

Theres no telling what Gibson's army of Slick Willies verbally promised, if anything. My guess is they wern't asked, so they didn't bring it up & the Garrison owners were so excited about the deal & large infusion of cash, they didn't think about it. Financially it shouldnt be that large of a burden for the original Garrison owners to honor any warranty claims on those models, even if they have to pay independent shops to do the work. After all they were good guitars right? So the claims should be minimal.

[lovemachine97]

 

After all they were good guitars right? So the claims should be minimal.

 

 

That depends upon where you are. Even though no acoustic warranty covers humidity damage, I am now beginning to think Garrison were more apt to damage in dry climates.

 

For example, I live in Southern California, which is mostly desert. Today, the Relative Humidity is 15%, which is about the average. Guitars like to be around 50% (closer to 45%) to stay healthy. Even in Newport Beach, CA today, where I have family, the RH is only 42%--barely what a guitar wants, and that is a beach Penninsula!

 

Here is what I think: I think the Griffiths Active bracing system was the company's biggest asset, and biggest downfall. I think that a guitar with a wood bracing system would have more leeway when it dries out. The Fiberglass system would be rigid, not swelling or shrinking WITH the guitar--causing splits along the back and top to be more likely. A guitar with wood bracings would likely swell and shrink with the body of the guitar, causing less split problems.

 

I also think this is the REAL reason they made the entire bracing system special order only, and went to only TOP braces. Not because it allowed more body shapes without the expensive machines to press the entire system, but because of the problems they were experiences with premature cracking.

 

Just to put it in perspective, I currently have 4 Garrisons with split tops or backs--2 are our customers' G Series instruments (made in Canada), one is a store stock AG (made in China) series, and one is mine, where I keep 2 dampits in the case, wet at all times. We are able to get our showroom to 32% humidity, and our 'acoustic' room to 50%, so the guitars leave here in good shape. But I think the Garrisons, because of the fiberglass, crack quickly.

 

Chris Griffiths probably knows this, and found a way to make a chunk of cash, NOT admit that this was the problem, and got a job at Gibson running their new Canadien factory. It is win/win for him.

 

I have only EVER received one Taylor back with cracking, and I can't think of any other manufacturer where I have ever received more than 1 or 2 instruments back because of cracking--and the average RH here is less than 21%.

 

Of course, that is just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[babablowfish]

Wow! I don't know if you are right, but that is a fine analysis.

[whit townsend]

well if thats true, and it seems logical that you could be correct, I'd have quit selling them as soon as I figured that out.

[lovemachine97]

Well, dude, I just started really thinking about that in the last week--after we had already dropped the line.

 

I don't have a lot of time between the University and work to polish my detective skills, but I am getting better...

[erikcore]

Hey there,

I'm one of the people being affected by the takeover. I sent in my G50-CE for a warranty issue about 3 months ago, was told it wasn't worth fixing. Two months ago they said they had put a new one in my old case and it would be shipped out Monday morning. I never did get my new guitar. As far as I know its still sitting somewhere in the Garrison warehouse in New York. I have no idea what happened to my old on either. I've talked to customer service at Gibson, and though they've been very nice, no one seems to know when or if I'll ever be seeing my guitar again. I have to say that this is pretty messed up. If anyone knows anything else or is having similar issues I would love to hear about it.

Thanks

[Alan Roberts]

I had a G-40 for a short while. The back split on it after about a year. I sold it at a huge discount, just to be rid of the thing.

I agree that having the bracing made of a different material than the back, top and sides, was probably the reason for this. They would expand and contract at different rates and amounts. I wish I had thought of that, or been told, before I bought that guitar. But, it was a lesson learned. No more hybrid wood/composite guitars for me.

[Peppus]

Hi there, i am an italian guy, i am new at this ...I just wanted to ask a couple of things to Lovemachine .

Since i want to buy a Garrison (i found one g35 at a good price) "1. Well let's be fair, it's probably more appropriate to call it fiber glass, since the bracing system is 40% glass. I think they sound great. BUT, I did have to do about $60 worth of work to my instrument to get it to play well, or as well as a 300 series or above Taylor. Kawai pianos use ABS synthetic parts in their pianos, and they are still world renowned."

...Which kind of work (in detail) did you do to make your Garrison play well?

And if i buy a new Garrison now , does it comes with garranty?

Thank you

[fmw]

I'm not a lawyer. But I've been a businessman for a long time. If Gibson bought the corporation (not likely) then by law they bought the liabilies along with the assets. That would make them legally responsible for warranties. If they bought some or all of the assets of Garrison (most likely) then the liabilities aren't part of the purchase. In that case, Garrison disappears as a company and, for Gibson, there is no responsibility for any of the former corporation's agreements or promises.

 

Having said that, whether this is a good or bad business decision depends primarily on Gibson's intent with the assets they purchased. If they intend to sell products under the Garrison brand, then the decision is stupid beyond belief because it undermines the value of the brand. If, instead, they purchased the plant and equipment to make Gibson branded products or some other brand other than Garrison, then what they did is normal practice and quite acceptable. It amounts to the same result as Garrison going out of business. Then they are putting the brand out of business along with the former corporation.

 

Based on what the OP says, this is most likely the scenario. Garrison was probably on the brink of financial failure. Gibson bought the assets with the intent of using them to manufacture Gibson's own products (an extra facility) and Garrison and its products and its brand will now disappear. Perfectly normal and acceptable business behavior - in fact it is the way to handle it. If the intent was to sell Garrison branded products, then they fouled up famously.

[Sangemon]

I know this is an old thread, but I had not seen it before.

 

This really makes me ashamed that I just bought an Epiphone. I feel like bringing it back.

 

What is GC's return policy again? Oh, that's right, they're owned by frickin' Gibson!

[FingerBone Bill]

I'm not a lawyer. But I've been a businessman for a long time. If Gibson bought the corporation (not likely) then by law they bought the liabilies along with the assets. That would make them legally responsible for warranties. If they bought some or all of the assets of Garrison (most likely) then the liabilities aren't part of the purchase. In that case, Garrison disappears as a company and, for Gibson, there is no responsibility for any of the former corporation's agreements or promises. Having said that, whether this is a good or bad business decision depends primarily on Gibson's intent with the assets they purchased. If they intend to sell products under the Garrison brand, then the decision is stupid beyond belief because it undermines the value of the brand. If, instead, they purchased the plant and equipment to make Gibson branded products or some other brand other than Garrison, then what they did is normal practice and quite acceptable. It amounts to the same result as Garrison going out of business. Then they are putting the brand out of business along with the former corporation. Based on what the OP says, this is most likely the scenario. Garrison was probably on the brink of financial failure. Gibson bought the assets with the intent of using them to manufacture Gibson's own products (an extra facility) and Garrison and its products and its brand will now disappear. Perfectly normal and acceptable business behavior - in fact it is the way to handle it. If the intent was to sell Garrison branded products, then they fouled up famously.

 

That is about as concise a statement of the facts that you can get Fred - The fact that Garrison still have a website suggests that they are still trading as Garrison and therefore Gibson "fouled up famously". Gee, I'm really surprised

[fmw]

That is about as concise a statement of the facts that you can get Fred - The fact that Garrison still have a website suggests that they are still trading as Garrison and therefore Gibson "fouled up famously". Gee, I'm really surprised

 

Sorry, I was trying to explain it accurately. The fact that the Garrison web site is up doesn't say anything about their intentions. It just says something about the inventory levels of the instruments they bought along with the company assets. If I were going to kill the brand, then I would do it after I had sold down the inventory, however. I predict the Garrison name will go away, assuming at least a tiny bit of competence on the part of Gibson management. Maybe they are stupid beyond belief. It just seems hard to imagine.