Members KovachianOne Posted August 17, 2005 Members Share Posted August 17, 2005 To apply this patriotic logic to guitars only is just plain stupid, and that's exactly why I never said anything of the such. My consumer choices extends to ALL products. But then, there's those exceptions. Not by choice, but by logisitics (or whatever word I'm looking for). If there's a specific item I need and it's made overseas and overseas only, well then I really don't have much of a choice now do I? Doesn't seem to help the american worker, but it doesn't hurt him either b/c he's not even competing for my dollar in that market. Last time I checked, America doesn't build home PCs purely from scratch but please correct me if I'm wrong there. We'll piece them together from foreign parts, and that's about as American as a computer gets from my perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OldFenderGuy Posted August 17, 2005 Members Share Posted August 17, 2005 I've never heard the Buy American to support the local economy phrase more often than when talking about the purchase of guitars. It would be interesting to do an inventory of products purchased for the average household and determine how many items actually have the "Made In The USA" label. I would venture to say that the majority of electrical products (TV's, Radio's, Computer's, DVD's, etc.) and the majority of appliances are manufactured in foreign countries. The same holds true with most automobiles and aftermarket automotive products. Check out the clothes you wear, your shoes, socks, and the list goes on and on.... Most families compare prices when shopping to try and find the best value for their hard earned dollar. Not many would pay a much higher cost for an item just because it was made in this country. The American Economy is in trouble, no doubt about that, and major changes need to be made. But to really help the economy it will take more than buying a new MIA guitar from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members princeadr Posted August 17, 2005 Members Share Posted August 17, 2005 I buy what I like if I can justify the price. I've got 1 Fender, 3 Gibsons, 1 Yamaha acoustic, 1 Ibanez (Chinese made), 1 Regal (Chinese made), 2 Traditions (Korean made), etc. If I can get a good quality American made instrument for not too much more than a foreign I will go for the American so I can in some small way help support some industry in this country. It's getting to the point where almost everything we buy is made somewhere else anymore. I'm worried about the future of production in this country. It is probably invevitable that most production will go elsewhere but damn, Rock and Roll is American born and I want to keep some of that here if I can. I hope some of the workers appreciate what they are making here. I'm sure they don't overseas to the extent that it isn't part of their culture the way it is here. Anyway, I know it is old fashioned but I still say most guitars are mere posers to the originals by Gibson, Fender, Gretsch that started it all. Haven't seen many original designs from other companies that inspired any interest on my part, so if I can get a good quality instrument at a not completely outrageous price I will go for it! But no, I won't pay $2,000 for a Les Paul. At least not until my salary is in the $200,000 range! (I wish!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted August 17, 2005 Members Share Posted August 17, 2005 Originally posted by Pott .Well they say an ocean is just billions of drops after all. Well, "they" are grossly underestimating the size of the ocean.The estimated volume of the oceans is 1.4 x 10^9 km^3.The estimated size of a drop of H2O is 0.025 cm^3. That comes to about 5.6 x 10^25 (that's sextillions) drops. Talking about "billions" here is more off base than saying that the gross national product of the US is "several" pennies, or saying that the population of China is "dozens" of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sultan417 Posted August 17, 2005 Members Share Posted August 17, 2005 Originally posted by princeadr But no, I won't pay $2,000 for a Les Paul. At least not until my salary is in the $200,000 range! (I wish!) The price of US models is exactly why i have so many imports in my stable. As much as i want to buy US, i cant when i see an ESP or Ibanez that is twice the guitar at 1/4 the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pott Posted August 17, 2005 Members Share Posted August 17, 2005 Originally posted by jerry_picker Well, "they" are grossly underestimating the size of the ocean. The estimated volume of the oceans is 1.4 x 10^9 km^3. The estimated size of a drop of H2O is 0.025 cm^3. That comes to about 5.6 x 10^25 (that's sextillions) drops. Talking about "billions" here is more off base than saying that the gross national product of the US is "several" pennies, or saying that the population of China is "dozens" of people. I see why you're called picker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Father_William Posted August 17, 2005 Members Share Posted August 17, 2005 Originally posted by OldFenderGuy I would venture to say that the majority of electrical products (TV's, Radio's, Computer's, DVD's, etc.) and the majority of appliances are manufactured in foreign countries. The same holds true with most automobiles and aftermarket automotive products. Check out the clothes you wear, your shoes, socks, and the list goes on and on....Most families compare prices when shopping to try and find the best value for their hard earned dollar. You're right, that's why you can't buy (or are finding less and less) made in the U.S. TVs and stereos, furnature, dishes and steelware, lights, books, motors, hardwear, toys, clothes, appliances and computers and soon cars. There is always someone somewhere who will work for $20 a week. Will you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members princeadr Posted August 17, 2005 Members Share Posted August 17, 2005 I'm not saying other guitars are twice as good or better than a great Gibby of Fender. There are probably some equally as good. But I know they are not $500 guitars because I have compared them. Maybe a top level Ibanez (don't reallly know anything about ESP guitars) can match up with them but certainly not the cheaper versions. They use cheaper electronics, tuners, etc. The workmanship may be very good though but a lot of the guts don't compare in my opinion. And of course none of them have the "vibe" but that is a whole other issue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cookie2 Posted August 17, 2005 Members Share Posted August 17, 2005 'Made in USA" = same {censored} for more dough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OldFenderGuy Posted August 17, 2005 Members Share Posted August 17, 2005 Originally posted by princeadr I'm not saying other guitars are twice as good or better than a great Gibby of Fender. There are probably some equally as good. But I know they are not $500 guitars because I have compared them. Maybe a top level Ibanez (don't reallly know anything about ESP guitars) can match up with them but certainly not the cheaper versions. They use cheaper electronics, tuners, etc. The workmanship may be very good though but a lot of the guts don't compare in my opinion. And of course none of them have the "vibe" but that is a whole other issue! I'm not sure if I buy that whole "vibe/mojo" thing I keep hearing..To me the majority of my guitars are a tool to accomplish a specific job.. Also, the "cheaper electronics/tuner" argument doesn't hold very much water...So what if you might feel the need to upgrade tuners and/or pots.. What's the additional cost for that? All of maybe $50?? I'm not against purchasing Made In USA guitars by any means, and I do own a bunch of them. But some of my higher dollar USA guitars do not play one bit better than some imports costing half the price, if that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members aclarke Posted August 17, 2005 Members Share Posted August 17, 2005 Originally posted by metalcore Where can I see these guitars on line? PM me... (PSSSST!! EMPTY YOUR MAILBOX! )I can't seem to find info on the SD guitars online yet - they were only building basses until pretty recently. The url on the pamphlet I've got is just to the main ESP site: www.espguitars.co.jp , and I can't seem to find anything there yet. here's a link to two of them, so you can at least see where I'm coming from:http://www.ikebe-gakki.com/shopping_20.php?state=2&cate=1&s_cate=1&brand=184the DT-125M and the DS-110M are both from the low end of the line. MIJ. I'll keep an eye out and PM you a link to their site when I see it up and running. .a. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members princeadr Posted August 17, 2005 Members Share Posted August 17, 2005 OldFenderGuy- You can't replace 2 pickups and tuners for $50 unless you are using cheap stuff like came on the original guitar! Good pickups are probably going to run $70 apiece and I'm not sure about tuners but I'll bet a good set of Grovers is more than $50 so what are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ibanezhater Posted August 17, 2005 Members Share Posted August 17, 2005 It's very important: American luthiers need jobs. I wish American cars were as well made as American guitars. Then I wouldn't be a hypocrite when I said "Buy American!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jjpistols Posted August 17, 2005 Members Share Posted August 17, 2005 Originally posted by princeadr OldFenderGuy-You can't replace 2 pickups and tuners for $50 unless you are using cheap stuff like came on the original guitar! Good pickups are probably going to run $70 apiece and I'm not sure about tuners but I'll bet a good set of Grovers is more than $50 so what are you talking about? read his post again - he didn't say anthing about pickups - Grovers typically run around $40 at GC, I think, BTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members princeadr Posted August 17, 2005 Members Share Posted August 17, 2005 JJ_ Yes I know, but the first thing one would replace would be pickups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mateo150 Posted August 18, 2005 Members Share Posted August 18, 2005 Originally posted by Father_William There is always someone somewhere who will work for $20 a week. Will you? Thats why the USA needs to keep invading these dirt countries and establishing economies there. Eventually, there won't be someone willing to work for $20 a week. The invasion economic stategy, the big picture at work. The major asian countries will all be similar to Japan in about 100 years. So no real need to invade there. Plant the seed and hope it spreads, kinda like a sailor from port to port. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OldFenderGuy Posted August 18, 2005 Members Share Posted August 18, 2005 Originally posted by princeadr JJ_ Yes I know, but the first thing one would replace would be pickups. The first thing most replace on any 'strat are the pickups, it's not limited to just imports..My post mentioned tuners and pots. Pots are different than pickups, and yes, pots and tuners can be replaced for around $50.00. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grynch Posted August 18, 2005 Members Share Posted August 18, 2005 http://www.espguitars.co.jp/seymourduncan/ They have pulled some of them from production as they started changing the headstocks. They were direct ripoff headstocks, but they've been changing them. My guess, to start marketing them outside of Japan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members princeadr Posted August 18, 2005 Members Share Posted August 18, 2005 OFG-I know pots are not pickups but my point is you will probably change the pickups on the cheap stuff. I've got a 23 year old Tele and it has the original pickups and it sound great. All I'm saying is to get a cheap import to sound close to being really good you are going to have to spend a little more money. It starts to add up. By the time you make those expenditures you begin to narrow the gap and you're getting close to the entry level American guitars from Gibson and Fender. Yeah, if you are going to keep the instrument forever, go for it. But if you think about resale value or originality of design or "mojo" or American jobs or whatever, then maybe you can spring for the American product and feel OK, like you weren't taken completely. That's my story and I'm sticking to it! PS- I'd feel silly wearing "My Only A Gibson Is Good Enough" hat while playing an Agile! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zenbu Posted August 18, 2005 Members Share Posted August 18, 2005 there was a rumor a while back that the Duncans are no longer in production. Could be but that story didn`t come from official sources, just babble on the web. But, I haven`t seen a 2005 SD catalog and the Big Boss ESP shop in Sendai doesn`t have any in stock... but that may just be because this is Sendai, not exactly cosmopolitan. I own one from each series and they are excellent, even the Traditional series, their lowest prices, is easily on par with the F/USA Standard series. My TL-250 M PRO tele is top notch, they just can`t be made any better. Anyways, the high end Navigators are the same guitars but with a different decal on the headstock. Get em used, they are better bargains. shoulda looked at Grynch`s link before posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jjpistols Posted August 18, 2005 Members Share Posted August 18, 2005 haha - $139 MIC, stock pups, pots, tuners - clips below - it sounds GOOOOOOOD!the pup covers were switched to black, pure cosmetics - the pups are stock, though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members seifukusha Posted August 18, 2005 Members Share Posted August 18, 2005 some vintage shop owner told me these duncan designed pups are really made in japan and then shipped to korea , etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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