Members Grynch Posted September 20, 2005 Members Share Posted September 20, 2005 Hasn't been discussed for a while, any more news on FujiGen ceasing production and so on?Just found this interesting bit on another forum! Without wanting to sound like I am only promting sales for my own shop, a recent update from friends in Japan confirm this MAY actually be true! Fender USA is getting very concerned about the number of F.J. guitars now making their way out of Japan. The number is starting to impact on sales of Mexican instruments in some "sectors" and also threaten the "price point" of various USA models. Fender USA make aprox 300-500% on every Mexican guitar sold in the USA, while they make little (in comparison) on a guitar sold from Japan. Interestingly a worker in the Japanese factory is paid MORE than a worker in the USA factory,yet a USA '62 reissue sells (retail)for over twice the cost of a F.J. model!! Without wanting to sound like I am only promting sales for my own shop, a recent update from friends in Japan confirm this MAY actually be true! Fender USA is getting very concerned about the number of F.J. guitars now making their way out of Japan. The number is starting to impact on sales of Mexican instruments in some "sectors" and also threaten the "price point" of various USA models. Fender USA make aprox 300-500% on every Mexican guitar sold in the USA, while they make little (in comparison) on a guitar sold from Japan. Interestingly a worker in the Japanese factory is paid MORE than a worker in the USA factory,yet a USA '62 reissue sells (retail)for over twice the cost of a F.J. model!! Not so good news for players all over the world , but DEVESTATING news for lefties, as Fender Japan make about 5 times as many lefty models as the parent company!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gibson185 Posted September 20, 2005 Members Share Posted September 20, 2005 All of the Fender Japan guitars I have ever played have been excellent. FujiGen, also the maker of Ibanez Japan, makes some of the best quality guitars I have ever seen on a production insturment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted September 20, 2005 Members Share Posted September 20, 2005 Originally posted by Grynch Without wanting to sound like I am only promting sales for my own shop, a recent update from friends in Japan confirm this MAY actually be true! Fender USA is getting very concerned about the number of F.J. guitars now making their way out of Japan. The number is starting to impact on sales of Mexican instruments in some "sectors" and also threaten the "price point" of various USA models. If you read what our friends in the USA say about a wide variety of subjects at this forum , then I would treat the "from friends" hearsay as...hearsay. Gossip. (And pray it's not true .)Instead of shutting down FJ, FMIC could simply discourage easy direc- buying and shipping...or lower the prices on MIMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jec Posted September 20, 2005 Members Share Posted September 20, 2005 Originally posted by Grynch Fender USA make aprox 300-500% on every Mexican guitar sold in the USA, while they make little (in comparison) on a guitar sold from Japan. Interestingly a worker in the Japanese factory is paid MORE than a worker in the USA factory,yet a USA '62 reissue sells (retail)for over twice the cost of a F.J. model!! Is it just me or does this make absolutely no {censored}ing sense whatsoever???? First, up to 500% on MIM stuff??? MIM's can be had for what, $300? Which means that they cost the dealers, lets say, $200 bucks. (Because remember, Fender doesn't actually profit from selling guitars to you and me they profit by selling guitars to the dealers that we buy them from...) I'm expected to believe that all in after Fender is done paying marketing and gas for the trucks to get them there and back and the paychecks of the Mexican workers and everything, a MIM Strat costs FMI $40 bucks to make?? That's {censored}ing laughable! Also, help me through this equation... The Japanese workers get paid more than the American workers.. Yet the '62 reissue from and American factory is magically more than double than the MIJ one? I love it when small business owners with no real understanding of margin or profit start to talk about these things. Like, because they pay a Mexican worker $2.00 a day to make Strats and he can make 2 a day, it means that they cost $1.00 a piece. Thus, when I buy it in a store for $300, some Fender exec gets a check for $299 cash from the money fairy.... I'm not saying they aren't closing the factory (which I doubt anyway). But I just have to giggle when I see stuff like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grynch Posted September 20, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 20, 2005 Actually, it's a) not posted on an American forum and b) posted by a businessman who actually probably would have a fairly good grasp on costs. Have you ever seen a price list from a Chinese manufacturer for instance. Cheapo electrics can be had for as little as about US$12, not cost of manufacture, that's sell price from a broker working on behalf of the manufacturer. Not inconceivable that a MIM could cost $40? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members relva2 Posted September 20, 2005 Members Share Posted September 20, 2005 what costs so much on guitars besides the labor? -especially fender--its all plastic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ancient Mariner Posted September 20, 2005 Members Share Posted September 20, 2005 Originally posted by jec help me through this equation... The Japanese workers get paid more than the American workers.. Yet the '62 reissue from and American factory is magically more than double than the MIJ one? I'm not arguing with the rest of what you said, but when has retail price and cost of goods ever had a direct connection? And japanese workers could well be paid more than US workers, but because they work more efficiently (different machinery & tools, fewer QC fixes etc) they might still make more guitars per $ spent. Just a few thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jec Posted September 20, 2005 Members Share Posted September 20, 2005 Originally posted by Grynch Actually, it's b) posted by a businessman who actually probably would have a fairly good grasp on costs. Not if he thinks that Fender (or anyone) is netting up to 500% on (mostly) non-automated production in a North American factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members batotman Posted September 20, 2005 Members Share Posted September 20, 2005 100% complete internet rumor garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jec Posted September 20, 2005 Members Share Posted September 20, 2005 Originally posted by Ancient Mariner I'm not arguing with the rest of what you said, but when has retail price and cost of goods ever had a direct connection? Because selling something for less than it costs you to make will put you out of business???I don't think I understand your question. Unless you're inferring that there is no constant corelation between cost of manufacture and pricing.. In other words we don't mark things up using a universal multiplier? Example, everything is always sold for 5X more than it costs us to make it?That's correct, there's not constant corelation but there is the basic fact that you can never sell something for less than it costs you to produce.(Unless you're running some bizzarro charity....) Keep in mind too that assumptively, CIJ guitars are really only for sale in Japan. So figure that into the equation of "Japanese factory workers are paid more than American factory workers." Remember what J. Keynes said about paying people to dig up glass jars with dollar bills inside? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grynch Posted September 20, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 20, 2005 100% complete internet rumor garbage. Guess we'll find out in 2006. As I understand it Fujigen are flat out with their car fit out manufacturing business. And they make their own line of guitars, maybe they're more interested in selling them domestically and cutting down their ghost making. I believe they've already scrapped all Japanese manufacture of Ibanez Prestige so..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gibson185 Posted September 20, 2005 Members Share Posted September 20, 2005 Originally posted by Grynch Guess we'll find out in 2006. As I understand it Fujigen are flat out with their car fit out manufacturing business. And they make their own line of guitars, maybe they're more interested in selling them domestically and cutting down their ghost making. I believe they've already scrapped all Japanese manufacture of Ibanez Prestige so..... Not according to this link. http://www.jemsite.com/forums/printthread.php?t=37030 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zenbu Posted September 20, 2005 Members Share Posted September 20, 2005 raise your hand if you`ve ever been shopping in Japan. Wanna know why Japanese workers make more money than Americans?... come over and see...$10.oo strawberries, $20.oo watermelons, $50.oo cantaloupes, apartments? don`t go there. etcetcetc. Japanese Fenders sell for just about double in Japan compared to the ones that have been exported to the US recently. And do people really think that Americans can dictate to the Japanese just what they can and can`t make? Fender USA may be able to control the use of their name but don`t for a moment think that if they no longer allow the Japanese to build under the name Fender that guitar production is gonna stop over here. The Japanese are out Fendering Fender and I don`t mean Fender Japan either, there are loads of builders over here making way better guitars than Fender USA, and nobody outside the country can buy them. Too bad for them but good for those of us who are here. So...that old tale of Fender Japan closing is back eh?... I don`t care, I`ll continue to buy the old FJs and I`ve already got a nice supply of MIJs that blow the socks off my USA Fenders... if they had socks that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dougy Posted September 20, 2005 Members Share Posted September 20, 2005 do Fujigen make Takeuchi trems? I'm sure I read somewhere that whoever makes them was going to stop... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BootRoots Posted September 20, 2005 Members Share Posted September 20, 2005 Did you guys hear about the new Lance Bass signature strat coming out. I read about it on the internet. its going to freakin' rule!read about it here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jec Posted September 20, 2005 Members Share Posted September 20, 2005 You laugh... If they thought it would sell, you'd see 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members batotman Posted September 20, 2005 Members Share Posted September 20, 2005 Oh Boots.....you know all I want is everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BootRoots Posted September 20, 2005 Members Share Posted September 20, 2005 Originally posted by batotman Oh Boots.....you know all I want is everything. i forgot I still had that in the sig:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ExtraGum Posted September 20, 2005 Members Share Posted September 20, 2005 Originally posted by jec That's correct, there's not constant corelation but there is the basic fact that you can never sell something for less than it costs you to produce. You ever hear of a "loss leader"?Reportedly, every XBOX manufactured by MS has been sold at a loss. Originally posted by zenbu Wanna know why Japanese workers make more money than Americans? Except that Japanese workers don't, on average, make more than Americans, neither in real dollars or purchasing power parity (PPP) adjusted dollars.Plus has anyone taken into account all the basswood, zinc, and crap electronics in the FJ products? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zenbu Posted September 21, 2005 Members Share Posted September 21, 2005 not again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mistersuperfly Posted September 21, 2005 Members Share Posted September 21, 2005 Dude... Fujigen needs to create their own line of original designs, and sell them between the 400-1000$ price point here in the states. With the quality of every CIJ instrument I've ever played, I wouldn't doubt that they would sell very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members syrinx Posted September 21, 2005 Members Share Posted September 21, 2005 to be honest, if fender pulled fuji gens licsencing they would continue to make the guitars they are making today. And fender could do nothing about it- the whole copyright thing obviously is not enforcable internationaly, and never was. The only lawsuits issued were to stores selling"counterfiets" and they were never procecuted. Fender makes something off the japanese guitars, and a corp is happier with 10% of something as opposed to 100% of nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members seifukusha Posted September 21, 2005 Members Share Posted September 21, 2005 Originally posted by zenbu raise your hand if you`ve ever been shopping in Japan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zenbu Posted September 21, 2005 Members Share Posted September 21, 2005 Fuji Gen has had their own line of guitars for a few years now, just don`t sell em in the States. Strats, teles, semi-hollows, Les Pauls you name it. Their high end stuff costs as much as Gibsons best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StrykeBack Posted October 27, 2005 Members Share Posted October 27, 2005 i had to do a search on these fender strats from japan after playing a couple gigs this week with a guy that had one from japan. He told me it cost him 500 bucks and looked and sounded better then the other guys california made custom fender strat.where would you order or import somethign from these guys?was going to look into a G&L tribute but if i can snag one of these for almost the same price well then hey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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