Phil O'Keefe Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 bdemon, please check your PM's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bluzpickr Posted April 27, 2006 Members Share Posted April 27, 2006 Originally posted by bdemon But there's my problem...where's the priceline between some rich hobbyist with a Digidesign rig and recording with the best through a Neve? I want some quality tunes to put online. Wasn't trying to compete with a major label release, I was shooting for something that people would hear and NOT think "project studio". I go too cheap (that is, someone lacking the ears I seek) and I get a nice demo I can show my friends or put on a Myspace page, but nothing I'd want to put online and ask people to pay .99 cents for (or download off Limewire. ) I put an ad on Craigslist today, seeking mixers (as well as talked to musician friends for references--research). I got twenty emails, some pitching their studios and clients. Others writing, "Yeah, I use pro-tools. I use it to record my band and my friend's bands. Give me a call." But they offer no samples, credits, some say they'll do it for $25 an hour, etc. I didn't think I was paying too much. Hell, I figured for four grand I'd leave with GOLD. But no...I'm left with tracks that I'd barely be comfortable posting on the myspace page. So begins the damage control. bdemon, I honestly feel bad for you. It's unfortunate that some lowlife studio hack ripped you off but it's pretty common these days for anyone with even a cheap multitrack unit to call themselves a recording engineer. Did you sign a contract or anything that can maybe help you get some of your money back? All legitimate studios normally have a standard contract stating the obligations of both parties. No legitimate studio would leave you hanging like that though because it's bad for business. Maybe you can talk them into refunding some of your money and giving you the tracks. If someone took me for that much I would make it a mission to not only get all my money back, but compensate me for the hassle. I won't get into specifics here, but from playing in bar bands for so many years, I've learned that there are a lot of ways to get your money when someone is trying to screw you. Use your imagination. If you find that there is no way to get your money back, you'll have to just bite the bullet and consider it an expensive education and some awareness of what to watch for as a musician. The music business is crawling with pimps and thieves and over time you learn to deal with it or get out. I wish you luck with your problem and hope everything works out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TBush Posted April 27, 2006 Members Share Posted April 27, 2006 Originally posted by bdemon I put an ad on Craigslist today, seeking mixers (as well as talked to musician friends for references--research). I got twenty emails, some pitching their studios and clients. Others writing, "Yeah, I use pro-tools. I use it to record my band and my friend's bands. Give me a call." But they offer no samples, credits, some say they'll do it for $25 an hour, etc. I didn't think I was paying too much. Hell, I figured for four grand I'd leave with GOLD. But no...I'm left with tracks that I'd barely be comfortable posting on the myspace page. So begins the damage control. Must be late, I'm rambling... What a drag- I'm late coming to this fracus (sp?) and can understand your frustration. I'm smack dab in the midwest and the 'going' rate for good recordings is $50 per hr. Some think it's too high, but if the quality is there and you can get to the goal of the big rich mix and everything, then great. I agree with bluzpickr- any legitimate studio will have an agreement (contract) that is clear and definitive and prepares for this situation. I think the 'creative refund' should come out of the time that they spent mixing that didn't satisfy you, the customer. Engineering and recording- you pay, obviously- but not bad mixing. Maybe ask them to split the difference- and then give you the consolidated (or 'merged for us Logic guys!) tracks on DVD.Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bdemon Posted April 27, 2006 Author Members Share Posted April 27, 2006 Thanks for the tips, guys. No, I didn't sign any contracts. I worked with these guys on my last CD (just mixing some tracks I created at home) and heard some of their other CDs and commercials they did sound for. I think my fault was that this studio doesn't do many rock/pop projects like I brought them. They do a lot of jazz, radio spots, sound for computer software, etc. But I figured hey, they do all this work, they've been in business, their resume is impressive...why couldn't they handle my stuff? And maybe they can if I'm willing to sit behind them every step of the way, nagging about every detail. But if I could do that then I'd have skipped the whole project and simply mastered my home demos. I figure I'll get all my tracks and go elsewhere. Getting my money back? I wish...but this is probably one of those life lessons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted April 27, 2006 Members Share Posted April 27, 2006 Consider listening to a lot of examples of the studio's work before committing to anything. Good luck with everything!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted April 27, 2006 Members Share Posted April 27, 2006 I'd suggest getting the individual tracks from the studio on CDR or DVDR or a portable hard drive, in WAV or AIFF format... and then I'd suggest sending the tracks to one or more of the esteemed folks on this forum so we can give you some opinions as to whether the tracks are well recorded/appropriately recorded for the material and it's worth your time to remix. Some of said folks are also excellent mix engineers and can probably help you out with that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 Which is pretty much exactly what I suggested to him in my PM. Still sharing the brain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MarkGifford-1 Posted April 28, 2006 Moderators Share Posted April 28, 2006 Originally posted by where02190 No, you need permission to release it from the owner of the copyright. Otherwise, they can order an immediate cease and decist order, and sue you for alot more than the $4000 you spent so far.Time to seriously rethink your plan IMHO. If it's a song that's been released commercially, anyone can record it, as long as there's no major lyric/music changes. It's called a compulsory license. It costs $92 for up to a thousand copies (I think,) if you press it. It can usually all be done online w/the Harry Fox Agency. We routinely make complete records here for $5-6000, sometimes a lot less. $4K for 3 songs seems high to me. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bdemon Posted April 28, 2006 Author Members Share Posted April 28, 2006 Originally posted by TBush What a drag- I'm late coming to this fracus (sp?) and can understand your frustration. I'm smack dab in the midwest and the 'going' rate for good recordings is $50 per hr. Some think it's too high, but if the quality is there and you can get to the goal of the big rich mix and everything, then great. I agree with bluzpickr- any legitimate studio will have an agreement (contract) that is clear and definitive and prepares for this situation. I think the 'creative refund' should come out of the time that they spent mixing that didn't satisfy you, the customer. Engineering and recording- you pay, obviously- but not bad mixing. Maybe ask them to split the difference- and then give you the consolidated (or 'merged for us Logic guys!) tracks on DVD. Hmm...it's making me think. Problem is, the studio shut the clock down at the mixing stage. Just as we started I computed the hours and realized at $85 an hour I was already in for closer to FIVE grand. So I brought this up with the owner, who said the clock wouldn't run at that point. I had already paid $2000, so I asked how much I was looking at to complete this project. He asked for another $1500. I thought that was alright at the time, seeing how at least a dozen more hours were spent mixing, along with a few mixing hours that I didn't attend (which I doubt were as much as implied).I suspect if I ask for a refund he's gonna say my bill technically should be over five grand. Damn, the lessons I'm learning with this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tenner Posted April 28, 2006 Members Share Posted April 28, 2006 I good idea when it comes to delivering the message about what kind of "sound" you're looking for is... REFERENCE CD'S! Bring in some music that sounds like what you want your music to sound like! Even if it's one cd that has the drums you want but not the rest, one with the guitar sound you seek and so on and so on..! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted April 28, 2006 Members Share Posted April 28, 2006 If the clock is no longer running, consider bringing in either a new engineer or a producer to get the tracks the way you want them. At least bring in reference discs of the sounds you are looking for, and be there from start to finish. IMHO 5k is an enormous amount of money for 3 songs unless there is some major amount of tracks involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted April 28, 2006 Members Share Posted April 28, 2006 Originally posted by where02190 IMHO 5k is an enormous amount of money for 3 songs unless there is some major amount of tracks involved. Agreed. For that money, anything less than very impressive would be a disappointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DontLetMeDrown Posted April 28, 2006 Members Share Posted April 28, 2006 Cut your losses and RUN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bdemon Posted April 28, 2006 Author Members Share Posted April 28, 2006 Originally posted by DontLetMeDrown Cut your losses and RUN I just did, actually, called the studio up and asked for the tracks because I want to have them mixed elsewhere. The owner was cool, though he said it would take at least a few hours to dump all the different tracks and versions down to a hard drive so someone else can open them without confusion. I guess he was implying that I would have to pay for the time spent dumping tracks. Fair enough, I guess. Anything specific I should request in how these tracks are dumped? He said the transfer would be worked out so all the versions of the songs would be copied, so the next guy with a pro-tools rig could open it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mightymusic Posted May 21, 2006 Members Share Posted May 21, 2006 If they give you the songs as Pro Tools sessions, you should be fine. However, they should also consolidate the tracks so that each one has the same start time. That way if someone uses a program other than pro tools, that person can import the files with little effort. As for a mixer, ask around your area, listen to some CDs that were mixed by whoever you're checking out and good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted May 21, 2006 Members Share Posted May 21, 2006 Ask for the tracks as 24 bit files, either .wav or .aiff, at the sample rate they were recorded at, and that they be consolidated, so each track is one file. This will allow them to be imported simply into any DAW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mightymusic Posted May 21, 2006 Members Share Posted May 21, 2006 Yeah, like he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted May 21, 2006 Members Share Posted May 21, 2006 Originally posted by where02190 Ask for the tracks as 24 bit files, either .wav or .aiff, at the sample rate they were recorded at, and that they be consolidated, so each track is one file. This will allow them to be imported simply into any DAW. If you want compatability on every DAW, I'd stick with .wav. Not all PC apps like .aif files. -Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted May 21, 2006 Members Share Posted May 21, 2006 Originally posted by IsildursBane Not all PC apps like .aif files. -Dan. I'm not doubting you, but I am curious if you could tell me some that don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted May 22, 2006 Members Share Posted May 22, 2006 Originally posted by where02190 I'm not doubting you, but I am curious if you could tell me some that don't. I recently had trouble importing aif's into Sonar. It's quite possible that I missed something (haven't gotten a chance to research it yet), but I know I'm not the only one that experienced the problem. -Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jazzbluesrock69 Posted May 31, 2006 Members Share Posted May 31, 2006 Ok, I'm probably less experienced than some of the people in this thread but I'll offer some humble advice/opinions... Do you know roughly what levels between instruments you want? You should aim to get the bass and drums very close in volume, and from then on it's really your choice. There are so many different ways of making sure you can get the best sound- use decent mics. Condenser mics provide very accurate recording in terms of staying faithful to the sound of the instrument. However, if these guys know what they're doing, (they should at that price) they will already be using decent mics. Probably the best way of getting the right sound is to try playing your songs live in the studio and getting the levels right at this basic stage- the less manipulation you have to do when mixing, the better! I assume you're recording with a band? In which case you can just get the engineer guys to strum on guitars or whatever- it really doesn't matter what they're playing, so long as you get the levels right. That's it, really- just get the levels right live! Oh, and another thing: try recording each instrument in a seperate room, or in a room on its own with lots of padding; this is probably of most importance for the drums, but try it with every instrument, including vocals. Peace and good luck, Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted June 1, 2006 Members Share Posted June 1, 2006 try recording each instrument in a seperate room, or in a room on its own with lots of padding; this is probably of most importance for the drums, but try it with every instrument, including vocals. Absolutely not, especially for drums. Lifeless rooms create lifeless recordings. While a dead tuned room can be helpful for vocals, most instruments benefit greatly by being in a good sounding room with some life to it. Isolation is a crutial factor in recording, but that doesn't mean you have to put everyone in their own little box. Proper placement of instruments, gobos, movable iso walls, etc., can keep everyone in close physical proximity with minimal bleed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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