Members GZsound Posted June 4, 2007 Members Share Posted June 4, 2007 I ran sound for a four day festival this weekend and one of the bands showed up with a pair of KM184's that they had on stage in a Blumlein.. I must admit I was seriously impressed with how nice those two mics sounded, especially after a plethora of AT 4047's, 4050's, AKG C3000's and a couple other LD mics that were put to use... I mean, they sounded wonderful on acoustic instruments.. Saving my pennies.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 Psst... IMHO, the (discontinued) KM84 sounds even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brewgoodbeer Posted June 4, 2007 Members Share Posted June 4, 2007 I am confused. The KM184 is a cardioid pattern small condensor mic. How do you put that mic in a Blumlein. Is there a bi-directional module? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GZsound Posted June 4, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 4, 2007 I am confused. The KM184 is a cardioid pattern small condensor mic. How do you put that mic in a Blumlein. Is there a bi-directional module? You aren't confused..I am. It's what happens after four 14 hour days of running sound and then coming home and posting something with only half my brain engaged..sorry about that. They used them in an XY configuration. I think Blumlein makes the butter I had on my bagel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GZsound Posted June 4, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 4, 2007 And just as another question.. Any suggestions regarding maybe less expensive alternatives to the Neumann small condensers? I have some Shure SM81's and they just seem weak compared to quality of the KM's.. So I am searching for four new small condensers that will also hold up to the rigors of live acoustic sound. Any suggestions would be welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted June 4, 2007 Moderators Share Posted June 4, 2007 I've only used the 184s as OH's and I found them harsh. Granted... the drummer was harsh, but they weren't the mic for that job and I haven't re-visited using them. As an XY for acoustic stuff? That might be nice. For a low cost substitute... I love the Oktava 012s. It's what I swapped out when harsh drummer boy hit the scene and they're nice. Prices very a lot and I'm out of touch with the $ now as mine are 5 years old or so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MarkGifford-1 Posted June 4, 2007 Moderators Share Posted June 4, 2007 I have a pair, and I use them all the time. Drum OH's, acoustic instruments, hand percussion, etc. I'll also throw 'em up at gigs, as a stereo pair and they really capture that well, also. Love 'em - really detailed and clear, especially thru a clean pre. I don't really find them harsh at all. You can find them for about $900/pr. used and they're well worth it, IMHO. I've also got the MK012s and while very nice, they're not comparable, sonically. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stage7 Posted June 4, 2007 Members Share Posted June 4, 2007 How do the Josephson C42's stack up next to the KM 184's? Mercenary is marketing them as a better mic than the 184, and at $900 (new) for a matched pair they're about half the price of a matched pair of the 184's. Might be worth a look at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brewgoodbeer Posted June 5, 2007 Members Share Posted June 5, 2007 While these are not SDC, I took Phil's advice and picked up a couple of Beyer Dynamic M160's. He was totally right. I played with them over the weekend and the are awesome on drum overheads, and the do a fantastic job on acoustic guitars and the like. I miked a violin from overhead and it was great. I even threw them up as a match pair and ORTF for a choir on Sunday. The response was very nice. While they are not as rugged as the KM 184, they are $200 less per mic and I love them. Thanks Phil for the recommendation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mono boy Posted June 5, 2007 Members Share Posted June 5, 2007 I mean, they sounded wonderful on acoustic instruments.. Saving my pennies.. I used a pair of those for the drum OHs on my new disc. they do sound nice but in hindsight they come off a little high ended---way too much cymbal for the sounds I was going for. they are brilliant if you want crisp attack on an acoustic insrument but I wouldn't use them again as OHs unless the drum sounds were more subdued. I bet there is a better value out there for small condensors and would love to hear more about them. I've also used the shures you have and they really don't have any swagger in any frequency to my ears---but I bet they would be a better match with my sytek pres as drum OHs./jonny btw---I've got a few mp3s up if anyone wants to hear some of the new cuts: bedm myspace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 Thanks Phil for the recommendation. Glad you're liking the M160's. IMO, they're great little ribbon mikes, and very reasonably priced for how good they sound. As far as the KM184's go, I don't think they're really a bad mic at all... but I do prefer the older KM84's. They sound less harsh in the highs to me. I have not tried the Josephsons, but I want to get around to that one of these days. I've heard good things about them. Another good contender in that price class is the Gefell M300. If you're on a tighter budget, don't overlook the Audio Technica condensers such as the AT4041 and AT4051. The Oktavia MC012 is also a good mic, and it does remind me a bit of the KM84 (not the brighter 184) sonically, although they can be noisy and they were not very consistent in terms of quality. I've got few of those. I've been thinking of sending at least a pair of them (so I can do stereo before / after comparisons) to Michael Joly at Oktava Mod to see what his mods do to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GZsound Posted June 5, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 5, 2007 Thanks Phil for the recommendation.Glad you're liking the M160's. IMO, they're great little ribbon mikes, and very reasonably priced for how good they sound.As far as the KM184's go, I don't think they're really a bad mic at all... but I do prefer the older KM84's. They sound less harsh in the highs to me. I have not tried the Josephsons, but I want to get around to that one of these days. I've heard good things about them. Another good contender in that price class is the Gefell M300. If you're on a tighter budget, don't overlook the Audio Technica condensers such as the AT4041 and AT4051. The Oktavia MC012 is also a good mic, and it does remind me a bit of the KM84 (not the brighter 184) sonically, although they can be noisy and they were not very consistent in terms of quality. I've got few of those. I've been thinking of sending at least a pair of them (so I can do stereo before / after comparisons) to Michael Joly at Oktava Mod to see what his mods do to them. In addition to the SM81's I have a few MC012's and I never found them to have the kind of clarity I heard in those KM184's.. Of course, I haven't used them in a pair live on stage at an outdoor acoustic concert either.. Maybe I'll have to give them a try. I have been looking at the 4041 and 4051 mics. I just wish I could hear them or try them out before buying. I had an opportunity to use a 4047, a couple of AKG C3000's and an AT 4033 (yuk), last weekend and I actually got more output and clearer cleaner sound with my trusty CAD GXL 2400's, which sell for $70 each.. Those other mics were harsh at times and I had trouble getting decent levels with the C3000. But.. those KM184's really impressed me. I'll try my MC012's up in Canada in two weeks at my next sound gig and see how they work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 But.. those KM184's really impressed me. I'll try my MC012's up in Canada in two weeks at my next sound gig and see how they work. Let us know what you think Mark. I doubt you'll find them as clear as the KM184's... but one man's "clarity" could be another man's "too bright". It all comes down to the situation - the acoustics, the sources, the context. If the KM184's are rocking your world, then by all means, get a pair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted June 5, 2007 Moderators Share Posted June 5, 2007 I used a pair of those for the drum OHs on my new disc. they do sound nice but in hindsight they come off a little high ended---way too much cymbal for the sounds I was going for. they are brilliant if you want crisp attack on an acoustic instrument but I wouldn't use them again as OHs unless the drum sounds were more subdued. These were my thoughts as well. And I do think you're probably right about the 184's working out great for an XY ensemble recording that needed clarity and zing. They would probably be perfect. But for OH's... which are my only experience, oh, and a brittle acoustic guitar, they didn't compliment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jimbroni Posted June 5, 2007 Members Share Posted June 5, 2007 Just did my reference recording of drums in my new studio. Octava MC012's (russian models) in X-Y for OH's and the CAD E200 Blumlein pair I discussed in a thread a week or two ago. Man the sound is so much better than anything I've recorded. The blumlein definitely makes it feel 3-D, a little flat by themselves though. I muted em and played just the Octava's, holy {censored}, those mic's rock. So pristine. I was floored. I believe it was you guys who convinced me to get those. I'm so glad I listened to ya. Thanks, and I agree with Phil obviously, those MC012's are nice little mics. I haven't heard the neumanns to compare though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GZsound Posted June 5, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 5, 2007 By the way... The band that brought their KM 184's was a Toronto, Canada based band called Creaking Tree. They were a sort of off the wall Grisman meets Zappa kind of acoustic band. No vocals. They did bend down and talk into the KM pair for between song banter and again, the Neumann mics were nice and clear.. I don't know if any of you are familiar with Creaking Tree.. I wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted June 5, 2007 Share Posted June 5, 2007 I've never heard of Creaking Tree, but "Grisman meets Zappa" sounds interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GZsound Posted June 6, 2007 Author Members Share Posted June 6, 2007 I've never heard of Creaking Tree, but "Grisman meets Zappa" sounds interesting! Here Phil, check them out... http://www.creakingtree.com/CreakingTree.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted June 6, 2007 Share Posted June 6, 2007 They're very good. Thanks for the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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