Noob phase question

[crossways]

I just finished my new floor in my studio and am going to load stuff back in tomorrow. I hope to do some serious home project stuff over the next few weeks.

 

I would like to fix a very frustrating phase issue, I know you guys can help. I am probably doing something so dumb, and I have been a bit nervous to ask for help, but I am tired of the digital crackle.

 

OK

 

I am in Sonar. My interface is an EMU 1820. My problem comes when I have my guitar plugged in and sing at the same time. I am using a Carvin semi-hollow, usually in piezo mode, but I get the same problem in ele. mode. My mic is a Berhinger B-2. I thought maybe I was running too hot, but even turning down didn't work. When I cut the mic to -10dB setting it helped some but then the vocal was much too low.

 

I feel like it must be a phase issue b/c when I record guitar or vox only there is not problem at any reasonable volume.

 

So is there a solution other than to record one thing at a time?

 

Thanks!

[Palaver]

 

I just finished my new floor in my studio and am going to load stuff back in tomorrow. I hope to do some serious home project stuff over the next few weeks. I would like to fix a very frustrating phase issue, I know you guys can help. I am probably doing something so dumb, and I have been a bit nervous to ask for help, but I am tired of the digital crackle. OK I am in Sonar. My interface is an EMU 1820. My problem comes when I have my guitar plugged in and sing at the same time. I am using a Carvin semi-hollow, usually in piezo mode, but I get the same problem in ele. mode. My mic is a Berhinger B-2. I thought maybe I was running too hot, but even turning down didn't work. When I cut the mic to -10dB setting it helped some but then the vocal was much too low. I feel like it must be a phase issue b/c when I record guitar or vox only there is not problem at any reasonable volume. So is there a solution other than to record one thing at a time? Thanks!

 

 

I think you answered your own question. Record both things seperately, or get two different mics - one for vox and one for the guitar amp. I am still kind of confused as to what you're asking... I doubt it's a phasing issue... I think it's more of inadequete micing.

 

This may help you: sound travels approximately a foot per milisecond. Therefore, if you have one mic placed 20 feet away, and another 1/2 foot away, they'll both record the same sound, but that sound will hit both mics at different times, thus at different phases. You really need to analyze the waveform to determine 'how' out of phase. It's the lower frequencies that are more likely to run into phasing problems, so (if I'm understanding you correctly), phasing shouldn't be too big of a deal if your just sitting back from a condensor singing and playing the guitar.

[nerol1st]

Is it an acoustic?

 

If so try one hot condenser mic. If this isn't as polished as your going for (hey there is gonna be a lot of room in a recording like that) then I would say either track separate (yeah that kind of ruins the vibe doesn't it) or move your mics around till it works.

[crossways]

I guess I didn't reveal that the guitar is being recorded direct. So it's only one mic.

 

I know it must be something very simple, I guess I just need to isolate until I find the culprit.

[mrbrown49]

 

I guess I didn't reveal that the guitar is being recorded direct. So it's only one mic. I know it must be something very simple, I guess I just need to isolate until I find the culprit.

 

 

So you are mixing the direct gutiar with the mic that picking up guitar and vocals? Is the problem there when just listening to the miced track (with the direct guitar muted)?

[crossways]

 

So you are mixing the direct gutiar with the mic that picking up guitar and vocals? Is the problem there when just listening to the miced track (with the direct guitar muted)?

 

 

You know I thought of that. But yes the problem is still there even when the guitar is muted and only listening to the vox track.

 

Also, and again I don't think it's a volume issue, but when I hit the record button 50% of the time there is a spike on both tracks at the very beginning that destroys the take.

 

When I record only one track at a time - no problem - crystal clear.

[Bassline Studio]

It's not a phase issue. First of all if you're recording your guitar direct, then the vocals are only present on your one mic channel. There is nothing the vocal to be out of phase with; that signal doesn't exist anywhere else but that one channel. Your direct guitar could be out of phase with the guitar spill into your vocal mic, but even then it would not cause the digital cracking that you described. Phase issues result in a certain portion of your frequency content being nulled (usually the low end), so the sound will thin out, not distort. If you are getting distortion when tracking two channels at once and not when you track just one, my first thought would be that you are overloading a summing bus, or the output to your monitors/headphones. If you record two tracks at once and hear the crackling, is it still there on playback if you solo just one of the channels? If it is gone with one channel solo'd then it is a bus or output overload. If it is still there, then your are driving something too hard earlier in you chain. Either way it is a gain structure issue. Start from the top of your chain and move through everything, being sure to leave enough headroom at each step of the way.

[johnreelsound]

Check out the video on here describing phase problems recording an acoustic and also look at using the ribbon mics to record a vocal and guitar at the same time

http://www.recording-microphones.co.uk/recording-Acoustic-Guitars2.shtml

 

John

[WRGKMC]

Even if the guitar bleedover through the mike is causing some phasing when mixed with the direct signal it can easily be fixed if the two are recorded on seperate tracks. Its done by shifting the guitar track late by a few miliseconds or adding a delay on that track.

I would guess the popping is some kind of overload. If the signals go to seperate tracks it shouldnt be happening from your description. If your combining the vocals and guitar to a single mono track than the input of both the vocals and guitar may be spiking the input too high causing distortion.

 

The popping could also be DC offset. If you have 2 different devices going in and theyre on different AC circuits it can cause some drastic problems caused by the AC wire resistance on the 2 circuits creating differences in potential. This DC potential difference can ride in on the input signal causing the entire signal to shift above or below the zero reference making the signal appear to be hotter than it actually is. You can easily check it by running the wave into something like cool edit or most any program that has a DC offest check/correction to see if its an issue.

[Drew'sToneZone]

Bag the direct signal and record the performance only with mics, or even one mic. If using two there are a couple techniques that should minimize any phase issues (pm me if you don't know them).

 

Even if you use only one mic, once tracked in the DAW you could put the track inside a stereo "room" using a convolution reverb. I do that a lot and use a small stage or a good LA recording studio program, which amazingly adds some nice 3-dimensionality to a mono track.

[crossways]

ok...I am convinced it is a gain issue, but I am not sure how to fix it.

 

I have brought all the levels back so I am certain nothing is overloaded. The problem may not even be in my instruments.

 

When I hit record either by mouse or "R" button on keyboard about 60% of the time there is a spike in the line levels. When the spike is there so is the distortion. BUT when the spike isn't there everything is fine.

 

Help?

 

P.S. it never spikes when recording only one instrument.