Members Rich Posted June 4, 2006 Members Share Posted June 4, 2006 Originally posted by Wizard of Ozz So we can charge an extra $1500 for the Historics. BTW: Why the need for weight relief holes? Why not ust get the proper weight body blanks in the first place? Historics do not have weight relief holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bruce Bennett Posted June 4, 2006 Members Share Posted June 4, 2006 Originally posted by Mistersuperfly Why the long neck tenon? Here ya go... This photo clearly illustrates why the long tenion is better for tone.. on the top photo, you can see all the "Air Pockets" that surround the joint.. These pockets of air slow down the transmission of vibration through the joint.. remember air is a rather poor transmitter of sound waves compared to solid objects or even liquids. anything that slows down vibrational transfer ,inside the guitar, or helps to "dissipate it faster,... is a tone killer. as for why gibson doesn't do Long Tenions oneverything.. is very simple.. they need a "legitimate" reason why THIS model has a WAY higher price than the standard production model. the long tenion is something that already HAS tons of " Mystery,Vibe, and VooDoo" generated around it.. Why you couldn't "dream up" that kind of VOODOO in a month of Sundays with the best advertising minds in the country... what an easy selling point. guitarists will sell themselves on this one so fast... Gibson just laughed itself silly all the way to the bank. If you can generate MV&VD around ANYTHING.. you can sell the crap out of it. it all sounds contradictory doesn't it... just remember, the reason you BUY a Gibson ... is NOT the same reasons tTHEY BUILD Gibsons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sunset_gun Posted June 4, 2006 Members Share Posted June 4, 2006 I don't know how much of a role neck tenon plays, but here's pretty sad/scary Gibson pic. Judging by this, it doesn't look like production LPs have a much longer tenon than SGs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LaXu Posted June 4, 2006 Members Share Posted June 4, 2006 Originally posted by sunset_gun I don't know how much of a role neck tenon plays, but here's pretty sad/scary Gibson pic. Not really. Just the fretboard and top removed most new non-CS Gibsons would look like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NoirAbattoir Posted June 4, 2006 Author Members Share Posted June 4, 2006 Originally posted by utterhack I keep trying to explain this, but my GF insists it really does make a difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Edward Posted June 4, 2006 Members Share Posted June 4, 2006 Originally posted by LaXu That pic's a classic. No wonder Gibson's production line department can get the neck angle right only about 1/4th of the time.It's funny how Gibson tries so hard to make their new guitars to be JUST like the old ones from the '50s and '60s. As much as I love many of Gibson's designs, they use many archaic production methods and features that could be improved upon.Personally I wish that they separated the Custom Shop Historic models and the production line models based on a vintage - modern division. Historic models would be vintage accurate while "modern" models would have modern appointments - volute behind the nut for extra support, maybe three piece laminated neck for extra stability, locking tuners, Graphtech nut, a bridge design that isn't as crap as the tune-o-matic and so on.In case someone's wondering why I consider the TOM crap, here's why:- Falls off without strings- Intonation range is limited- Saddles are held in place with a very poor system (retaining wire or C-clips that can rattle, aren't durable and are easy to lose)Sure it works, but there have been many improvements to it, the best I've seen are the tune-o-matic variants found on the Yamaha SG and Ibanez Artist guitars. Very tight tolerances and "rimless eyeglasses" type attachment for the saddles on the Yamaha and locking posts and saddles on the Ibanez unit. Nice idea, but it ain't gonna happen.... end of the day, guitar buyers in general are crazy conservative, and if Gibby changed it, they'd run the risk of losing sales. You only have to look at how fussy the LP-style market is about meaningless crap like brand, headstock shape, etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members saturdaysaviour Posted June 4, 2006 Members Share Posted June 4, 2006 Surprised they haven't stolen this idea yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LaXu Posted June 4, 2006 Members Share Posted June 4, 2006 Originally posted by Edward Nice idea, but it ain't gonna happen.... end of the day, guitar buyers in general are crazy conservative, and if Gibby changed it, they'd run the risk of losing sales. You only have to look at how fussy the LP-style market is about meaningless crap like brand, headstock shape, etc.... True. Still, things like Graphtech nuts and locking tuners could be done as upgrades that don't change the looks of the guitar. I don't think many would care if they put an improved TOM on the guitars too, although I'm sure there would be purists who would instantly say "those locking tuners and new bridges take away all tone from the guitar.." IMO that "set-thru" thing falls under "might as well make it a neckthru ideas. Not to mention removing the neck if needed would be even bigger pain in the ass than it is on a regular set neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kherman Posted June 4, 2006 Members Share Posted June 4, 2006 Originally posted by Mistersuperfly Why the long neck tenon? Here ya go... If you notice in the pic, the short tenon has a curve to the bottom side. This is so they can angle the neck much easier and quicker. The long tenon is a much lengthier process. The long tenon has to keep surface to surface contact with the pocket. The neck has to keep the proper angle. Last, the neck and carved top need to flow together. There's a lot more hands on adjusting with the long tenon. Most MIJ replicas have a medium tenon. The tenon extends all the way to the neck pickup cavity. But, doesn't have the tongue extending into the bottom of the cavity like a long tenon does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kherman Posted June 4, 2006 Members Share Posted June 4, 2006 Originally posted by LaXu IMO that "set-thru" thing falls under "might as well make it a neckthru ideas. Not to mention removing the neck if needed would be even bigger pain in the ass than it is on a regular set neck. Actually it's supposed to give you the best of both worlds.The length gives the sustain of a neck thru.The set neck aspect allows you to get the resonance because the body is still one piece. (should be one piece). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members batotman Posted June 4, 2006 Members Share Posted June 4, 2006 So what tenon is this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kherman Posted June 4, 2006 Members Share Posted June 4, 2006 Originally posted by batotman So what tenon is this? That's definitely a long tenon. Very cool that your MIJ's have it. I knew the Elitists did, I didn't think the Edwards did. My Diodati has the medium tenon. A lot of MIJ Tokais, Burnys, Orvilles, Grecos Iv'e seen pics of always seemed to have the medium tenon. My MIC Fernandes Ravelle has a medium tenon also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members voneville Posted June 4, 2006 Members Share Posted June 4, 2006 Originally posted by guitarlady I like the feel of thicker ones better, like the 50s Les Paul neck. I can't tell if you're playing along with his enuendo or are serious... It's funny though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members surfcat Posted June 4, 2006 Members Share Posted June 4, 2006 Originally posted by sunset_gun I don't know how much of a role neck tenon plays, but here's pretty sad/scary Gibson pic. Judging by this, it doesn't look like production LPs have a much longer tenon than SGs. Instead of 9 holes drilled in it, why don't they make one big one and call it a "sound chamber" like a Cloud 9 guitar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kherman Posted June 4, 2006 Members Share Posted June 4, 2006 Here's my Diodati's medium tenon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alchemist Posted June 4, 2006 Members Share Posted June 4, 2006 Originally posted by surfcat Instead of 9 holes drilled in it, why don't they make one big one and call it a "sound chamber" like a Cloud 9 guitar? I wish they would drill a lot more and make them semi chambered. Lots of premium guitars are that way and it wont effect the tone. I'd love to get my hands on a 7lb les paul, without having to pay CS prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members No Soul Posted June 4, 2006 Members Share Posted June 4, 2006 My 81 Tokai Loverock has a long tenon. Not sure about my 87Greco Not sure I really care either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 10-46 Posted June 4, 2006 Members Share Posted June 4, 2006 Lots of good info already mentioned. The main reason behind the short neck tenon is that it is easier to fit to the guitar while the neck is being attached. It's called a "rocker joint" and allows quite a bit of movement/adjustment when aligning the neck to the body. I personally think a longer tenon makes for a better sounding guitar. I'm sure there are great sounding short tenon necks out there, as well as long tenon Les Pauls that sound like crap. Most of the long tenon neck guitars do sound better than their short tenon brothers. It's just like real life. You want to have big dick or a little one? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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