Members albiedamned Posted August 31, 2008 Members Share Posted August 31, 2008 I'm looking for advice on a mixer to use for real-time monitoring. I have 10 channels of preamps and three stereo synths as well as the stereo mix coming back from the DAW, so I need a total of 18 inputs. A few more inputs would be good to allow for future expansion. Right now I use an old CR-1604VLZ for the task, and it works just fine, and I might well wind up sticking with it (I use all 16 channels and put the DAW on one of the 4 stereo returns). But I would prefer to sell it and get something smaller and ideally rack-mountable. Even better I would prefer a true line mixer without any mic preamps so the sound will be as uncolored as possible by the mixer. In my research, the only thing I've come across that fits the bill is the Mackie LM-3204, which is no longer in production but available used on eBay. But I can't believe there's nothing else out there that can do this. Alesis has a couple products that come close - the MultiMix 8 Line and the MultiMix12R. But neither has enough inputs. One possibility is getting two of the MultiMix 8's, since they can be linked. One slight drawback with the Mackie 3204 is that it takes 5 rack spaces. I'm about to get a RTA Creation Station desk which has dual 4 space racks under the monitor tier. It would be awesome if I could fit whatever I get right in there so it's within arm's reach. If I keep my 1604 or get the 3204, it will have to be rack mounted in a separate rack off to the side of my desk. Does anyone have any suggestions on other products I should consider, new or used? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Do you want something for summing purposes only? Is this something you need for tracking (low latency monitoring via the mixing board. signal routing) or mixing only - or both? Summing mixers are available from several companies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members albiedamned Posted August 31, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 31, 2008 I'm not looking for a summing mixer. What I want won't be part of the signal path for tracking. This is just for monitoring. I send my preamps straight into my audio interface for tracking, but I "mult" them through a normalled patch bay so I can monitor them in real time while recording. The DAW and the synths playing MIDI tracks also go through the mixer, and the mixer feeds my monitors. Does that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members albiedamned Posted September 14, 2008 Author Members Share Posted September 14, 2008 Update - I wound up buying an LM-3204 off eBay for $250. So far so good. I do think it sounds a little cleaner that my CR1604-VLZ did, most likely because it does not have preamps. Another nice bonus is that each channel has stereo inputs, so my synths and DAW outputs only take up one channel each whereas they took two channels on the CR1604-VLZ. It does not fit in the 4 space rack on my Creation Station desk, but the rack area is actually taller than 4U so I just sat it back in there flat and used a couple doorstops to tilt it back a little and make it more accessible. I'm very pleased both with the ergonomics and the sound! I highly recommend an arrangement like mine, because it takes away all latency concerns. Latency is irrelevant because I monitor everything in realtime through the mixer, yet the mixer is not part of the signal path when recording. All my sources (synths, preamps, DAW outputs) go to a patch bay which is half-normalled to send them to a channel on the mixer. When I want to record a preamp or synth, I patch it to the DAW inputs. Because the patch bay is half-normalled, the signal also still goes to my mixer for monitoring. So I don't need to monitor through my DAW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kiko_lue Posted October 23, 2008 Members Share Posted October 23, 2008 One slight drawback with the Mackie 3204 is that it takes 5 rack spaces. I'm about to get a RTA Creation Station desk which has dual 4 space racks under the monitor tier. It would be awesome if I could fit whatever I get right in there so it's within arm's reach. If I keep my 1604 or get the 3204, it will have to be rack mounted in a separate rack off to the side of my desk. im lookin into buying the creation station, how is it workin out for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members albiedamned Posted October 23, 2008 Author Members Share Posted October 23, 2008 It's great - I love it. Much higher quality than you'd expect for $200. Sure it's particle board not real wood, but it's very solid and sturdy, and highly functional. I have my 19" LCD monitor on the upper tier, with small cheap pc speakers flanking it, and then my KRK RP5's on Auralex Mopads flanking the pc speakers. There's plenty of room for all that. On the main tier, I have my computer keyboard and mouse in the middle, an M-Audio Axiom 25 on the left, and a UA Solo/610 and FMR RNP on the right. I also have my Dave Smith Evolver sitting just behind my computer keyboard, in front of the racks. And of course I have all 8 rack spaces filled up (power conditioner, Digimax FS, BBE 812i, and patch bay on one side, and the LM3204 mixer on the other). On the bottom tier, by my feet, I have my PC mini-tower, and then tons of random stuff that I needed a place to store (boxes, manuals, a gaming joystick etc etc). Having everything right within reach like that is great. I've been meaning to take some pictures. If I ever get around to it, I'll post them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kiko_lue Posted October 24, 2008 Members Share Posted October 24, 2008 It's great - I love it. Much higher quality than you'd expect for $200. Sure it's particle board not real wood, but it's very solid and sturdy, and highly functional. I have my 19" LCD monitor on the upper tier, with small cheap pc speakers flanking it, and then my KRK RP5's on Auralex Mopads flanking the pc speakers. There's plenty of room for all that. On the main tier, I have my computer keyboard and mouse in the middle, an M-Audio Axiom 25 on the left, and a UA Solo/610 and FMR RNP on the right. I also have my Dave Smith Evolver sitting just behind my computer keyboard, in front of the racks. And of course I have all 8 rack spaces filled up (power conditioner, Digimax FS, BBE 812i, and patch bay on one side, and the LM3204 mixer on the other). On the bottom tier, by my feet, I have my PC mini-tower, and then tons of random stuff that I needed a place to store (boxes, manuals, a gaming joystick etc etc).Having everything right within reach like that is great. I've been meaning to take some pictures. If I ever get around to it, I'll post them. that be great, ive actually been lookin to get the krk rp6 g2, how do like the rp5s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members albiedamned Posted October 24, 2008 Author Members Share Posted October 24, 2008 They're ok. I have standing wave and flutter echo problems in my room which I need to get some acoustic treatment to fix, so right now the mixes I'm making don't always translate too well when I listen to them on other systems. But I can't say if it's the monitors yet until I get my room acoustics under control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CN Fletcher Posted October 24, 2008 Members Share Posted October 24, 2008 They're ok. I have standing wave and flutter echo problems in my room There isn't anything you can really do about the "standing wave" problems in your room except change the shell size [if the problem occurs below 250Hz... above 250Hz you can pile up some fiberglass insulation in the corners]... and something tells me that moving walls isn't in the budget nor realm or realist thought. For slap echo problems all you need to do is hang some stuff on the walls... now you can go with absorbtion [cloth covered fiberglass usually works well] or diffusion [which if you have a couch or to in your room and the reverb time isn't unreasonable is what I would suggest]... or a combination of the two. For diffusion, while a quadratic diffusor set would probably be the way to go they're A) expensive [if you buy them off the shelf] or B) a pain in the arse to build. On the ceiling in the back of my control room we went for entirely 'random diffusion'... which was pretty simple. We just saved all the scraps of wood when we were building the joint... any two scraps / any large scraps were cut down so they were not the same size / shape as any of the other scraps. We then "screwed and glued" them to the ceiling [a little glue underneath... then a couple of dry wall screws into the wall... hopefully into a stud but if it didn't make it into a stud that's why we had the glue]. If you don't have scraps of wood from a new construction you can create them with a saw and a couple of 2"x 4"s [or 1- 2"x 4" and 1- 2"x 3" or 1- 2"x6"] board. Just cut them into random shapes and sizes and apply them arbitrarily to the wall behind you [then you might want to cover them with chicken wire and cloth cover that wall... maybe put a couch in front of it to stop people from trying to lean on that wall, etc. You can do the same for the ceiling... and then hang some dead stuff on the side walls and you should be fine. It ain't gonna be perfect... but it sounds like you have neither the need nor the budget to try to get it perfect [and there are NO "perfect" rooms... there are "good rooms (as in I can work here) and "not good rooms" (like this needs help)... but none that are perfect]. A typical "real" control room runs around $250k to build... my room where I cut a ton of corners [the isolation is complete {censored}e... but the lion's share of the money you'll spend on a CR goes into isolation] ran about $60k to build. You can put a band-aid on your room for probably less than a couple hundred bucks and less than 25 hours of labor... which all told ain't too bad. Best of luck with it!! Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members albiedamned Posted October 24, 2008 Author Members Share Posted October 24, 2008 ... and something tells me that moving walls isn't in the budget nor realm or realist thought. So the various bass trap products on the market don't help with standing waves? That's what they're advertised to do. Interesting how this has turned into an aoustics thread. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted October 24, 2008 Members Share Posted October 24, 2008 So the various bass trap products on the market don't help with standing waves? That's what they're advertised to do.Interesting how this has turned into an aoustics thread. . . Paging Ethan....paging Ethan Winer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fuzzball Posted October 24, 2008 Members Share Posted October 24, 2008 Fletcher, do you have any pics of your project...I am considering building some for my new studio (construction is expected to be around next June). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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