Black Lion 002R Mod?

[Amigo]

I was considering getting an HD system but now I am considering getting a black lion mod and upgrading my computer instead.

 

Anyone listen to them both? What's the general comparison to an HD system?

[CME]

I love my modded 002. I have the HD mod, which I think they've discontinued, but was the step below the tweakhead. Yep just checked and all they offer is the tweak head or the signature mod. While I can't comment on how much difference they make over the HD mod, I can say I love mine. After doing a lot of reading on the DUC and going through some listening test I've decided the biggest difference is in the D/A conversion. It's hard to tell tracks that were recorded on a stock of modded 002, I know I hear things I never heard before the mod. Mixes finally translate like they should. I can hear reverbs and delays tail off. And everything seems to have more "space".

 

Having said that a better D/A converter may do the same thing and would probably hold it's value better in the long run. But as for me and mod. I'm satisfied. And maybe the tweakhead and sig mods do even more.

[Amigo]

 

I love my modded 002. I have the HD mod, which I think they've discontinued, but was the step below the tweakhead. Yep just checked and all they offer is the tweak head or the signature mod. While I can't comment on how much difference they make over the HD mod, I can say I love mine. After doing a lot of reading on the DUC and going through some listening test I've decided the biggest difference is in the D/A conversion. It's hard to tell tracks that were recorded on a stock of modded 002, I know I hear things I never heard before the mod. Mixes finally translate like they should. I can hear reverbs and delays tail off. And everything seems to have more "space". Having said that a better D/A converter may do the same thing and would probably hold it's value better in the long run. But as for me and mod. I'm satisfied. And maybe the tweakhead and sig mods do even more.

 

 

well I have an apogee rosetta 800 but I can only get 8 tracks at once.

[Zooey]

If the primary difference is the DA, I would consider using an unmodified 002 in connection with a Dangerous Dbox. You'll get monitor controls with talkback, 2 headphone outputs, an 8 channel active summing box, and a very good DA.

[Phil O'Keefe]

I still have not heard the BLA mods, but I keep hearing great things about them FWIW, they do HD interface mods too IIRC.

 

One of the main things I think HD offers you that really makes a huge difference is ADC. I don't think that, now that I have used that, I'd relish the idea of going back to LE and dealing with the issues - although there are various work-arounds.

 

But in terms of sheer processing power, a good quad core i7 is so powerful, I can't see the need for a lot of people to go HD strictly in terms of "horsepower", although again, there are other factors to take into consideration...

[CME]

well I have an apogee rosetta 800 but I can only get 8 tracks at once.

 

Well then you have a pretty nice setup already. What are you monitoring through? The 002 or the Rosetta? Also how are you setting it up? Do you have the 002 or the Rosetta as the Master?

 

FWIW I would set up the Rosetta as the Master, if you're not, and see what happens. Might get you where you're wanting to go without any money spent. Having said that if you still wanna get the mod, I'd def get the Sig mod. As I'm pretty sure it adds a BNC out to slave the Rosetta to. That should give you an overall better clocking set up. Might email Black Lion to make sure I'm right about that. lol

 

And I'm not saying there wasn't any improvement in the rest of the 002. Just that the D/A seems to be the biggest improvement. On the DUC a while a go there was a thread with some tracks to listen to. It was hard to tell which was which definitively. There were differences in the tracks. Just not "Oh wow!!!" kind differences. But the guy who played piano on the tracks was extremely impressed with the differences in the room. So IMO there are probably several small changes that lead to a much bigger change. Just the biggest of the changes was the D/A conversion. At least IMO.

 

Just my .02

[Amigo]

Well then you have a pretty nice setup already. What are you monitoring through? The 002 or the Rosetta? Also how are you setting it up? Do you have the 002 or the Rosetta as the Master? FWIW I would set up the Rosetta as the Master, if you're not, and see what happens. Might get you where you're wanting to go without any money spent. Having said that if you still wanna get the mod, I'd def get the Sig mod. As I'm pretty sure it adds a BNC out to slave the Rosetta to. That should give you an overall better clocking set up. Might email Black Lion to make sure I'm right about that. lol And I'm not saying there wasn't any improvement in the rest of the 002. Just that the D/A seems to be the biggest improvement. On the DUC a while a go there was a thread with some tracks to listen to. It was hard to tell which was which definitively. There were differences in the tracks. Just not "Oh wow!!!" kind differences. But the guy who played piano on the tracks was extremely impressed with the differences in the room. So IMO there are probably several small changes that lead to a much bigger change. Just the biggest of the changes was the D/A conversion. At least IMO. Just my .02

 

I think it's ran through the rosetta, and then into a vintage refurbished/cleaned/modded ward beck mixing board. It sounds great, I'm just trying to get it sounding better

[WKG]

I have an 003r with the Signature mod and I love it. Haven't been able to do an AB comparison with HD though, can't help there. BLA does work through the entire signal path on these, not just the D/A end although that be more apparent initially due to the new power supply. I can easily tell the difference between tracks recorded on my unit before and after the mod work. The new clock is first rate. I had one of the first microclocks and I don't know what they put in that thing but it brought a very smooth and detailed fatness that was not there prior. The Signature series clock is there and more.

 

I think a Rosetta 800 would make a great setup with a modded 003r/002r without having to shell the bucks out for an HD system. For my needs I'd rather sink the extra money into mics, pres etc.

[CME]

 

I have an 003r with the Signature mod and I love it. Haven't been able to do an AB comparison with HD though, can't help there. BLA does work through the entire signal path on these, not just the D/A end although that be more apparent initially due to the new power supply. I can easily tell the difference between tracks recorded on my unit before and after the mod work. The new clock is first rate. I had one of the first microclocks and I don't know what they put in that thing but it brought a very smooth and detailed fatness that was not there prior. The Signature series clock is there and more. I think a Rosetta 800 would make a great setup with a modded 003r/002r without having to shell the bucks out for an HD system. For my needs I'd rather sink the extra money into mics, pres etc.

 

 

Yeah that's the thing there. I know the "HD mod" included improvement to everything. Just the D/A seems to be the most pronounced. From what I've read from the people the had the "HD mod" and then went to "Tweak Head", the improvement was just as big. They say the Sig Mod is really another step above. So I have no doubt a Sig Modded 003r + Rosetta 800 with choice pre-amps = True Studio Quality Sound for much less than HD.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Other factors:

 

HD can utilize the TDM plugins; not all of which are available in "native" versions. Things like the Eventide Anthology II bundle won't run on an LE system. Also, no matter how fast your CPU is, the HD processing horsepower is "in addition to" that... you can still utilize all of the capabilities of your i7 quad to run RTAS (and, with the FXpansion wrapper, VST) plugins, while runing TDM stuff on the chips on the HD Accel cards.

 

HD has more options in terms of I/O, and has options in terms of third party I/O and converters that LE doesn't have. If you want more than 18 total inputs and outputs (44.1 / 48 kHz), or want to use more than 10 I/O's at 96 kHz and you insist on running Pro Tools, you have to go HD instead of LE. HD can have up to two 16 channel interfaces connected per HD card, up to a total of...6? I'm pretty sure it maxes out at 6. 6X16= 96 channels of I/O.

 

If you want to run PT at 192 kHz, HD is your only choice - LE doesn't "do" 192. The best you can do with a Digi 002 or 003 is 96 kHz. That wasn't a big issue for me personally since I still regularly use 44.1 kHz, but it sounds like it's important to you...

 

As you noted, LE has a stock track count limitation of 48 mono OR stereo tracks (mono or stereo can be interchangeably used; each track type counts as one "track"). HD has some limitations too, and it will depend on how many cards you have installed and what sample rate you are using, but you can have up to 192 tracks.

 

Adding the Music Production Toolkit to your LE rig will let you up the maximum track count to 64 mono or stereo tracks, and will give you some other useful plugins and tools (such as multitrack Beat Detective) and when I last checked into it, it was under $500; much cheaper than the price of the individual bundled plugins.

 

As far as ways to get around latency with a LE system, you can use an external mixer for input monitoring. There is also a third party plugin developer who has a plugin solution for addressing the lack of automatic delay compensation on LE setups... but I'm drawing a blank as to their name. Hopefully someone will come along soon with their name...

[MrJoshua]

Mellowmuse ATA. I have it (came with my UAD2 card). I'm still getting into it so I don't have a real opinion of it yet.

[Amigo]

 

Mellowmuse ATA. I have it (came with my UAD2 card). I'm still getting into it so I don't have a real opinion of it yet.

 

 

interesting, I will look into this thanks!

[scapier]

I have in on the 002 and it's worth it for sure, if you plan to stay in the PT world for a while. I don't see myself going HD unless my commercial work picks up 1000% but I could see myself getting the 003 with eight channels and doing the big BA mod on it! I would love to convince BA to install eight John Hardy pre's too!