Jimmy Page being discredited

[jrockbridge]

 

You're right; Star Wars owes a lot of its character development to Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress. Kurosawa has been "borrowed from" many times. A Fistful of Dollars is a reworking of Kurosawa's Yojimbo. The Seven Samurai was redone in Hollywood as The Magnificent Seven.

 

 

OT: Star Wars characters owe a lot to the Lord Of The Rings: http://www.spookybug.com/origins/lotr.html

[Burningleaves]

 

I think they said that the dude from Spirit is dead and that his Mother is trying to get something going?

 

 

Ya, The "main dude" of Spirit (Randy California) died in the late 90's. I didnt know if him or anyone else from the band had said anything. They sure have had a ong time to if they havent already.

[jrockbridge]

This thread = dog ca ca History of music = imitate, change, compose ever hear a composition based on a I IV V or a II V I or a I vi II V ? Here's a better question: which band that has made it big, if you were to look at their influences hasn't melded songs from those influences into their repertoire? :blah:

Good summary.

[CanuckKid_15]

Wow! You can make a list of random bands! Give us the songs, and the songs those artists ripped off, for our consideration... otherwise, that list means nothing. Here's a list of bands who have never ripped off a single note (without any proof to back my statement up): Nickleback, Korn, Limp Bizkit, Bobby McFerrin, Wayne Newton, Newt Gingrich, Morrissey, Olivia, Newt, and John, The Army of Lovers, Winger, Warrant, and The impotent Sea Snakes.

Funny, they all suck except for Warrant, and they only have a few sweet songs.

[raviolio]

 

This article is a pretty good overview. http://www.furious.com/perfect/jimmypage.html I haven't read it for a few years, probably covers the same stuff as this radio interview. I don't really think it takes much away from Zeppelin, but it is criminal that they stole royalties from people for so long. I have the original version of Dazed and Confused on a Jimmy Page session man bootleg, it's really similar, but seems like something they had heard and half remembered, it's a pretty cool song, very different, but obviously the same at the same time.

 

 

... yeah, "Dazed and Confused" (for which I've never understood it's appeal, as I find it one of the most boring songs in their catalog) is not so much 'borrowed' as it is a direct cover:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazed_and_Confused_(song)

[raviolio]

What are they going to suggest next? Force Vanilla Ice to credit David Bowie and Queen on Ice Ice Baby?

[jerry_picker]

"Plagiarism is the basis of all culture," attributed to Pete Seeger in reference to a quote from Charles Seeger, Pete's dad and noted musicologist.

[jerry_picker]

OT: Star Wars characters owe a lot to the Lord Of The Rings: http://www.spookybug.com/origins/lotr.html

 

 

 

And both owe a lot to the New Testament and early Christian apochryphal literature.

[zigzaguarsnarl]

And both owe a lot to the New Testament and early Christian apochryphal literature.

 

 

and Wagner / Norse - Germanic myth... and Robert Plant wrote songs about Gollum (Alberich) and what not

[TheFigurehead]

Funny, they all suck except for Warrant, and they only have a few sweet songs.

No, they all suck, save Morrissey... but that is neither here nor there. How could you take a list that includes Newt Gingrich and "Olivia, Newt, and John" as artists seriously?

[angus_old]

Funnily enough, it seems to me that the rock area appears to be often out on its own in this - folk and classical musicians are not castigated simply because they are not primarily songwriters.

 

 

that is what defines rock

[raviolio]

 

And both owe a lot to the New Testament and early Christian apochryphal literature.

 

 

...which, in turn, borrow HEAVILY from ancient Greek, Egyptian, and Zoroastrian (Persian) myths.

[paul6string]

Taurus ( the band Led Zepellin opened for )

 

The chromatic descending bass is the same, but it doesn't end the phrase with the Am like stairway. It's pretty freaking close though.

[angus_old]

Did anyone from Spirit ever way in on the whole issue?

 

 

jake holmes said he didn't care

[Kuhnfyoozed]

Copping a song and taking a song and making it different, ex: stairway's opening chords, are very different. Assuming that Page didn't have anything to do with the opening riff is ridiculous, and I would be insulted if someone said I didn't write something because it sounds like an earlier song or uses the same progression.

 

Sucks for all of the musicians that used the 12 bar blues after it was done once, I guess you're all hacks now.

[td5_23]

Plagiarism: Stealing from one source.

Research: Stealing from many sources.

 

Page knew he was lifting from other people, just like lots of musicians have done before him. As has been said before, no music is new. If you're playing rock, and especially blues, everything that you play has been borrowed from somewhere else. No surprises there. The difference, as described in the article dujo linked to earlier, is that Jimmy received writing credit for the songs in question as opposed to them being called "Traditional: Arranged by Jimmy Page". This doesn't discredit him from being a wonderful song arranger, composer or player, so this whole thing about kicking him out of the Hall of Fame is stupid. However, if "traditional" really wants royalties, I think Jimmy should hand them over. I really don't see that happening though.

[angus_old]

Sucks for all of the musicians that used the 12 bar blues after it was done once, I guess you're all hacks now.

ummmmm.....

[angus_old]

if led zeppelin got kicked out of the r&rhof my estimation of them would rise a thousandfold

[335clone]

Sucks for all of the musicians that used the 12 bar blues after it was done once, I guess you're all hacks now.

Yeah, Imagine walking into the patent office and trying to trademark an A-D-E shuffle.

[Mr JinX]

That article was bull{censored} anyway, not particularly objective

[jerry_picker]

and Wagner / Norse - Germanic myth... and Robert Plant wrote songs about Gollum (Alberich) and what not

 

 

A vast syncretic synthesis western culture is.

[Kuhnfyoozed]

'Tis a joke. Just making an extreme example. Copying stuff is a part of learning your trade. If everyone had to start from square one every time, would we make much progress?

[td5_23]

 

That article was bull{censored} anyway, not particularly objective

 

 

It is not objective, however it still makes good points. Page definitely has lifted things from other over time, there's no denying that. The article speaks to whether or not he should be given writing credit for these songs as opposed to them being kept as "Traditional" songs, whether or not he "stole" things from other to the extent that the article may be implying.

[Guvnor]

Jeeezzzzzuuussss... this {censored} comes up every now and again: People--it's BLUES music, specifically blues lyrics. It had been done a million times before Zeppelin; it just so happens that Willie Dixon put his name on it. You can go through Muddy's stuff and hear pieces of lyrics, verses, etc. from older blues songs. It's the nature of the form. Copyright law doesn't recognize oral traditions.

Plus, I don't know why Page gets the blame for it when, if you heard just the music, you'd never, ever pick it out. Plant should be getting this flack. The most obvious example is Whole Lotta Love and You Need Love; the lyrics are nearly identical but Muddy couldn't and wouldn't have played like Zeppelin.

[p4vl]

I guess you have to expect this when young prettyboy englishmen take the blues, add a new coat of fuzz, acceptable white faces and are able to elevate themselves to levels of wealth rivaled by royal families.

Yes, everyone plagarises, the only thing that affects accountability in this case is the accounting.