Members Geoff Grace Posted January 25, 2006 Members Share Posted January 25, 2006 Originally posted by amplayer:Originally posted by Geoff Grace Even though Pro Tools doesn't support CoreAudio, I would imagine it should work fine with Ensemble if the Apogee unit were to be used with it like a Rosetta 800 - as a converter for, say, a Digi 002. Any word on that, steadyb? If so, I see one in my future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members amplayer Posted January 25, 2006 Members Share Posted January 25, 2006 For me, the feature that's lacking on Ensemble is the analog inputs.There are 8 analog inputs, but four of them are XLR only, and the other 4 are quarter inch only. The XLR inputs are (obviously) connected to the Apogee preamps, and I assume you can bypass the preamps in case you want to convert a line level signal. Still it would be WAY more convenient if the 4 XLR channels also had a TRS input and you could select either TRS or XLR via software or hardware switch.Currently, I use a MOTU 828 MKII for the task that could potentially be replaced by an Ensemble. However, I use my 828 also as a digital mixer since it has 8 quarter inch inputs. This enables me to monitor keyboards and effects units, etc. That task is still possible with Ensemble, but it is not as convenient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members steadyb Posted January 25, 2006 Members Share Posted January 25, 2006 Originally posted by amplayer it would be WAY more convenient if the 4 XLR channels also had a TRS input and you could select either TRS or XLR via software or hardware switch.Currently, I use a MOTU 828 MKII for the task that could potentially be replaced by an Ensemble. However, I use my 828 also as a digital mixer since it has 8 quarter inch inputs. This enables me to monitor keyboards and effects units, etc. That task is still possible with Ensemble, but it is not as convenient. Inputs 3 and 4 let you choose between TRS or XLR, giving you up to 6 TRS inputs. Also, I'd say due to the Apogee converters, the "sound" would be a significant improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members amplayer Posted January 25, 2006 Members Share Posted January 25, 2006 Originally posted by steadyb Inputs 3 and 4 let you choose between TRS or XLR, giving you up to 6 TRS inputs.Also, I'd say due to the Apogee converters, the "sound" would be a significant improvement. Are you sure? The picture of the rear of the unit on their web site shows "Hi Z" for those 2 inputs. Normally "Hi Z" is not TRS. In any case, having the Hi Z inputs on the back of the unit is also rather inconvenient IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members steadyb Posted January 25, 2006 Members Share Posted January 25, 2006 Originally posted by amplayer Are you sure? The picture of the rear of the unit on their web site shows "Hi Z" for those 2 inputs. Normally "Hi Z" is not TRS.In any case, having the Hi Z inputs on the back of the unit is also rather inconvenient IMHO. No I'm not sure. I'll check on that, you may be right. When Apogee showed it to us, they said the 1/4 " inputs were TRS, but I didn't specifically ask about the Hi Z inputs, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Geoff Grace Posted January 26, 2006 Members Share Posted January 26, 2006 I came up with a nickname I like for this unit: the "Applegee." I mean the Ensemble is a good name and all, but Applegee just seems to fit, don't you think? Best, Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members steadyb Posted January 26, 2006 Members Share Posted January 26, 2006 Remind me to sit at the other end of the table next NAMM dinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brittanylips Posted January 27, 2006 Author Members Share Posted January 27, 2006 Originally posted by amplayer The XLR inputs are (obviously) connected to the Apogee preamps, and I assume you can bypass the preamps in case you want to convert a line level signal. Still it would be WAY more convenient if the 4 XLR channels also had a TRS input and you could select either TRS or XLR via software or hardware switch.Currently, I use a MOTU 828 MKII for the task that could potentially be replaced by an Ensemble. However, I use my 828 also as a digital mixer since it has 8 quarter inch inputs. This enables me to monitor keyboards and effects units, etc. That task is still possible with Ensemble, but it is not as convenient. The XLR vs. TRS thing is really a non-issue. If you knew that you were going to use those inputs at line level, and needed TRS rather than XLR, you could just have an adapter cable on hand which would easilly and cheaply do the trick. XLR is a beefier connection than TRS, and often on pro gear all you get is XLR. (TRS is often used as a space spacer). It's really no big deal to simply use a cable to go from TRS to XLR, and I have a number of these cables on hand that I use to do just that. - PL&B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bp Posted January 27, 2006 Members Share Posted January 27, 2006 Does the Ensemble work with PCs?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Geoff Grace Posted January 27, 2006 Members Share Posted January 27, 2006 Originally posted by TinderArts: Does the Ensemble work with PCs?? TinderArts, my guess is that it will work as a converter for PC sound cards but not as a PC sound card itself. I'll bet our friend, steadyb, will give us the full scoop when he finds out. Best, Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bp Posted January 27, 2006 Members Share Posted January 27, 2006 I guess I should have asked "Will it work..." since it has yet to be released. In regard to FireFace, I'd greatly miss the TotalMix app that comes with the FF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brittanylips Posted January 27, 2006 Author Members Share Posted January 27, 2006 Originally posted by TinderArts In regard to FireFace, I'd greatly miss the TotalMix app that comes with the FF. As I see it, that's one of the things I would welcome missing - with Ensemble, you route audio from within Logic itself rather than use a separate app. But if you want the separate app, you get that too by using "Maestro" which comes with it and looks to be essentially Apogee's version of TotalMix. -PL&B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members amplayer Posted January 31, 2006 Members Share Posted January 31, 2006 Even though it has a much bigger footprint, the new Mackie 1200F has way more I/O features than the Fireface or the Ensemble. The one feature in Ensemble that nobody else has though, is the Soft Limit feature. According to 400F reviews, the 1200F should sound very good. As good as Ensemble or Fireface? That would be a great shootout. Maybe Craig can do one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brittanylips Posted January 31, 2006 Author Members Share Posted January 31, 2006 Originally posted by amplayer Even though it has a much bigger footprint, the new Mackie 1200F has way more I/O features than the Fireface or the Ensemble.The one feature in Ensemble that nobody else has though, is the Soft Limit feature. According to 400F reviews, the 1200F should sound very good. As good as Ensemble or Fireface? That would be a great shootout. Maybe Craig can do one. I think the difference will be features (1200F) vs. fidelity (Applegee). Given that the mic pres on Apogee Trak2 are WAY better than Mackie pres, and the Ensemble is supposed to have even better pres than the Trak2, and the conversion on Apogee is really in another league from Mackie, I think the Ensemble will deliver just incredible quality at that price. I also think that Apogee has help from Apple with the software, so that will be really elegant, especially if you use Logic. On the other hand, the 1200F and FireFace have so much i/o and monitoring options, and are so versatile. For me - I have a FireFace (which I like), but I get really good vibes from the Ensemble. I might snarf up one these new Ensembles and use it for a while. Then, if I find that I can get by w/o the FireFace, I'll unload it. -PL&B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted February 1, 2006 Members Share Posted February 1, 2006 I wonder how the converters compare to that of the Rosetta 800 (which I think sound beautiful). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Awake77 Posted February 1, 2006 Members Share Posted February 1, 2006 While reading Craig's review of the 400F, I found out about the 1200F. Then I read the spec sheet and my jaw hit the floor:) I use a Layla24/96 right now (which a damn nice piece of gear for the money, IMO) - and had planned on upgrading to the Fireface after Ive completed a few projects. Ive got my sights on the 1200F now...that would be ultimate mobile tracking solution AND provide for quality I/O in my project studio. Plus, with all those I/O options - you could always upgrade to higher-end preamps at a later date. Those Onyx pres may not be in the same league as an Apogee but they're still quite nice... Awake77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members amplayer Posted February 2, 2006 Members Share Posted February 2, 2006 Originally posted by Awake77 While reading Craig's review of the 400F, I found out about the 1200F. Then I read the spec sheet and my jaw hit the floor:)I use a Layla24/96 right now (which a damn nice piece of gear for the money, IMO) - and had planned on upgrading to the Fireface after Ive completed a few projects. Ive got my sights on the 1200F now...that would be ultimate mobile tracking solution AND provide for quality I/O in my project studio. Plus, with all those I/O options - you could always upgrade to higher-end preamps at a later date.Those Onyx pres may not be in the same league as an Apogee but they're still quite nice...Awake77 You make a good point; Essentially just as I was saying. However, I agree with B-lips that the sound quality of the Ensemble will likely be noticably better due to the preamp and especially the low jitter A/D. Plus Apogee is known for their great D/A as well, and since this would also be used for analog monitoring, the result would surely be better with the Apogee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Awake77 Posted February 2, 2006 Members Share Posted February 2, 2006 Ah, you're right about the low jitter...I guess we'll have to see what the 1200F is like after its fnally released. The Ensemble is out for me, as Im a PC/Sonar user. I dont know though - the Pro Review seemed mighty positive for the 400F, and if Mackie follows through with their mention of adding some quality dynamics processing to the on-board DSP chip...the 1200 would definitely be an attractive unit. Im all for top quality though, Id definitely want to compare both units for myself before I spent my cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Awake77 Posted February 2, 2006 Members Share Posted February 2, 2006 Just some food for thought: The 1200F will be using AKM 5385 and 4358 AD/DA converters (same as the 400F). These are the same units found in the RME ADI2 and ADI4, and I believe the FireFace as well. That's interesting - I guess the precision of the clock generator will determine the difference (if any) in sound quality between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brittanylips Posted February 2, 2006 Author Members Share Posted February 2, 2006 Originally posted by Awake77 Just some food for thought:The 1200F will be using AKM 5385 and 4358 AD/DA converters (same as the 400F). These are the same units found in the RME ADI2 and ADI4, and I believe the FireFace as well.That's interesting - I guess the precision of the clock generator will determine the difference (if any) in sound quality between the two. I believe the D/A on the FireFace is AKM 4395 not 4358, but I could be wrong. Also, other components aside from the actual converters may influence sound quality. The 1200F seems like it offers even more features than the FireFace (particularly monitoring), as if, on top of all the usual bells and whistles, it swallowed a Big Knob or Central Station on its way to market. FWIW, the 1200F is 2 rather than 1 rack spaces, so it's not as backpack-able with a laptop. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a bit of an inverse relationship between features and fidelity: 1200F (most features) ------- FireFace -------- Ensemble (sounds best) -PL&B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Awake77 Posted February 2, 2006 Members Share Posted February 2, 2006 I wouldn't be surprised if there was a bit of an inverse relationship between features and fidelity: That's usually the case! I guess we'll just have to wait and see though. If you're a mac/logic user I guess the Ensemble would be the way to go, but it will be tough decision on the Fireface or 1200F for me(if its all its cracked up to be). I emailed Mackie and asked how the 1200F should compare to both the Echo Layla24 and the RME Fireface in terms of converter quality...a rep replied promptly and said that he owns a Layla himself, and that the 400F sounds more open and clear - which is impressive. He also went on to say that as of right now, the 1200F should have the same converters as the 400F and that its final AD/DA quality would probably be slightly lower than the FireFace but a bit better than the Layla. And no idea on a release date:( With all that I/O though, you could add anything you wanted, and still have a great base unit for mobile tracking. The 2RU size doesnt bother me - its less than lugging around a Fireface and an Onyx 1620 anyway:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brittanylips Posted February 3, 2006 Author Members Share Posted February 3, 2006 Originally posted by Awake77 If you're a mac/logic user I guess the Ensemble would be the way to go, but it will be tough decision on the Fireface or 1200F for me(if its all its cracked up to be). I too was mesmerized by the number of features in the 1200F and thought, feature-wise, this is the perfect interface - it can handle everything. I used to have an analog studio with lots of muss and fuss, but in my new Logic-based studio, I am really going for ease of use (with a rack of choice analog outboard for good measure). I got a FireFace to use as an interface, thinking that it is so versatile, and has good sound quality for the money, that it would be a good start. I considered Apogee converters at the time, but in order to get the i/o I wanted, it would have required a level of complexity and cost that I just wasn't into. I figured I'd start with the FireFace to get things going, and maybe add Apogee down the road. One of the things I want to do is make really fine recordings of my piano. I'm thinking that the Ensemble will give me that extra boost of quality for the piano, and I may not miss all the inputs of the FireFace, since I don't really record a whole lot of channels at once these days anyway. My home recording is getting more intimate, I guess, so I don't really need a gazillion options, but the extra bit of sound quality would be nice. Originally posted by Awake77 I emailed Mackie and asked how the 1200F should compare to both the Echo Layla24 and the RME Fireface in terms of converter quality...a rep replied promptly and said that he owns a Layla himself, and that the 400F sounds more open and clear - which is impressive. He also went on to say that as of right now, the 1200F should have the same converters as the 400F and that its final AD/DA quality would probably be slightly lower than the FireFace but a bit better than the Layla. That sounds like an honest response, but I never really believe what any company rep says about another company's products. Given the tribal mentality of human nature, I find that they usually escalate the comparative value of their own products, so I heavilly sprinkle their words with more than a few grains of salt. Anyway, how about I get the Ensemble, and sell you my FireFace? -Peace, Love, and Brittanylips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members amplayer Posted February 3, 2006 Members Share Posted February 3, 2006 Originally posted by Brittanylips Anyway, how about I get the Ensemble, and sell you my FireFace? How about you get the Ensemble, and then decide in a few months that you really did need a lot of extra inputs. At that time, you sell me your Ensemble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brittanylips Posted February 3, 2006 Author Members Share Posted February 3, 2006 Originally posted by amplayer How about you get the Ensemble, and then decide in a few months that you really did need a lot of extra inputs. At that time, you sell me your Ensemble. OK. I'll get the Ensemble, unload my FireFace to Awake77, and then, realize that I miss all those i/o's and that I've made a terrible mistake. But at the same time, the Apogee conversion will have spoiled me and I just can't look back, so I'll have to unload my Ensemble to you, bite the bullet, and get the Symphony + AD16X DA/AD for way too much money. I don't know, it probably makes sense to get the Ensemble and keep the fireface banging around just in case, and then, perhaps, after I realize I'm not using it, sell it and then immediately regret it. Now that sounds like a plan. -Peace, Love, and Brittanylips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Awake77 Posted February 4, 2006 Members Share Posted February 4, 2006 Anyway, how about I get the Ensemble, and sell you my FireFace? Bro when you're ready to sell that FireFace drop me a PM! (seriously!) And if you need it back, Ill sell it back to you and get the 1200F:) Awake77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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