Members felix Posted April 4, 2006 Author Members Share Posted April 4, 2006 Really? I thought f-bomb only referred to one very specific word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members object.session Posted April 4, 2006 Members Share Posted April 4, 2006 oh. i see how my last post wasn't clear. i'm complaining about "mash-ups" being used for meaning so many things, while just complaining about the term "f-bomb" for the fact that it's used by so many people who aren't soccer moms (uh, soccer parents that is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paulskirocks Posted April 5, 2006 Members Share Posted April 5, 2006 i totally agree that kis need to be taught to keep it clean and have respect for others who would be offended... however, i don't feel that greenday has any responsibility to stop cussing just because the kids on nickolodeon like their music... greenday is not kids music, period... kind of like asking artists to stop painting nudes! paulski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members felix Posted April 5, 2006 Author Members Share Posted April 5, 2006 Funny, Green Day doesn't seem to have a problem with lots of airplay for edited versions on the radio or MTV... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted April 5, 2006 Moderators Share Posted April 5, 2006 Originally posted by paulskirocks i don't feel that greenday has any responsibility to stop cussing just because the kids on nickolodeon like their music... greenday is not kids music, period... kind of like asking artists to stop painting nudes!paulski No one is asking Green Day to stop cussing. I like a lot of music that expresses itself in "colorful" language. Listen to American Hi-Fi's 1st one or any Ministry or Revolting Cocks. I like that stuff. But... If Ministry somehow hit with the 9 year olds there's going to need to be a bit of re-thinking on the possibility of offering an edited version. I repeat: No one is asking Green Day to stop cussing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kiwiburger Posted April 6, 2006 Members Share Posted April 6, 2006 Lee - you probably misunderstood my sarcasm. The point that I was making is that the parent who physically assualted his kid for singing a bad word probably misguidedly thought that he was "doing the right thing". What is the greater evil - singing a bad word, or physically assaulting your child? Personally - I believe in "spare the rod, spoil the child". I was strapped and caned and otherwise assaulted by teachers and parents when I was a kid. The thing is, I knew damn well I was wrong and deserved it. Although, in todays polictically correct climate, I could have laid charges against those teachers, and divorced my parents. There are obviously two ditches each side of this road, and i'm not suggesting we fall into either of them. Lee - you say you enjoy Greendays colorful lyrics. I can stand a certain amount of color, but just being disgusting to appeal to disgusting 10 year olds seems a bit lame to me. It just seems like a real double standard to say on one hand that you enjoy Revolting Cocks or whatever, and then demand a higher standard from your kids. Or even to beat them up because they don't hold up this higher standard that you personally don't comply with. The way I see it, it's a conscience matter. I figure that colorful language won't hurt me, but I can see it might hurt some vulnerable people. Words ARE a weapon, and you can do a lot of good, or a lot of damage, with exactly the same words. That's what I meant about the 'spirit' of the lyrics getting through. If you genuinely have a problem with a song, just bleeping the lyrics doesn't change the spirit of the song. Put it this way: If you found a lump of dog {censored} on your pizza, would you simply remove the lump of dog {censored} and still feed it to your kids? Edit: just realised this could be misunderstood. I'm not saying Greenday is necessarilly dog {censored}. What I am saying is this: use your conscience, to decide if a song is really harmful or not. IF you really, really consider it harmful, then I don't think you should have it in the house. Not for yourself, not for your kids. A double standard is intolerable, and kids see right through it, and grow up to disrespect you. IF you thinks it's really not harmfull, then why beat up your kids over it. I agree there are some things that kids have to old enough to do. Driving the car, drinking alcohol, etc. There are safety reasons for that. But use of words - there is really no age limit. It's not so much the words themselves - it's how you use them. Is there an age when you can start to abuse people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted April 6, 2006 Members Share Posted April 6, 2006 Originally posted by Kiwiburger I'm not saying Greenday is necessarilly dog {censored}. Would you say that Green Day is dookie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members deanmass Posted April 6, 2006 Members Share Posted April 6, 2006 Ken, my brutha... Alway with the AfroRainbow laughs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members deanmass Posted April 6, 2006 Members Share Posted April 6, 2006 BTW, the smacking was not limited to anything....it just came. About 6 months after that, I stared him down, as I could then look him in the eye. They divorced shortly after due to this and a few other reasons. it is really weird what you remember from these things, violence, seems normal, then you start thinking 'umm, this sucks', trying to avoid it, but rather than fight back, I just stood up. But I have to wonder if my stage fright while singing is leftover psychological bs frmo that incident, cause I have never forgotten it. I guess if I heard my son(s) singnig a 'bad' word, I'd probably go in and just drop the voluem down and ask them to skip it. I can't think of any reason I would hit my kids, but I know many people who hit theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Magpel Posted April 6, 2006 Members Share Posted April 6, 2006 Originally posted by js1 Yeah - amazing what having kids does to you.Childhood is so fleeting, and this is a pretty rough world. A child will have most of his/her life to deal with the full impact of the crap. A little protection for just a little while isn't bad. And it's up to the parents to decide what's right. js Beatifully put, and what's more, you can sometimes catch in your nine your old kid, already too immersed in the culture of entertainment sex and violence and badass rebel self-styling, a desire to be shielded from harsher elements, a kind of instrinsic sense of what is approrpiate for a nine year old. Contrary to the idea that whatever is forbidden grows exponentially in allure, I see kids often as willing collaborators in the setting of these boundaries. They don't like to be outright denied anything without recourse, but they can grasp the ideas of pacing, of growing into a full consumer privilege. As far as Billy Joe's insights into "subliminal mind{censored} America," I find that, you know, Noam Chomsky and Michael Parenti paint the problem with a finer brush... My nine year old's favorite album of all time is American Idiot, btw, and Blood Sugar Sex Magic is second, so I've decided to be pretty permissive regarding profanity in music because I do actually see redeeming value in letting him have his tatstes... and in the music and "messages" of Green Day and RHCP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Magpel Posted April 6, 2006 Members Share Posted April 6, 2006 I'd also like to add that almost ANY art or entertainment can be appropriate for children if a caring and critically-minded adult is there to help the child contenxtualize it and in so doing help develop the kid's own critical faculties. But soon, in this envirnoment of ceaseless bombardment, the adult can't keep up with the rate of conumption and other, less nuanced ways of regulating "culture consumption" come into play. See, all the "T" in the "T for Teen" video game rating says to me is that I have to check it out and give my explicit approvial before he can play/buy it. And even there I can't keep up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted April 6, 2006 Moderators Share Posted April 6, 2006 Originally posted by Kiwiburger It just seems like a real double standard to say on one hand that you enjoy Revolting Cocks or whatever, and then demand a higher standard from your kids. Kiwi... you are clearly a very bright man. We do however, have a basic disagreement. There's a difference between a "double standard" and keeping my kid away from things that might be wrong for them at that age but OK for me. That is not a double standard. That's good parenting. I love a good cigar, I love good beer, and I love really loud punk music that is intelligent. All of these things are not right for my 9 year old now. All of these things will be available to her when she's ready... even the cigar if she wants. Now that would be cool smoking Cohibas and drinking Young's Double Chocolate Stout while listening to Stiff Little Fingers with my daughter! Hey... sweetie, while you're up, would you crank it a bit more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paulskirocks Posted April 6, 2006 Members Share Posted April 6, 2006 mmm... youngs double chocolate stout... a fine meal, but 9 is too young... i didn't start stealing beer til age 11... paulski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hard Truth Posted April 7, 2006 Members Share Posted April 7, 2006 Parents- I need help with understanding your concern. Someone please explain to me what horrible things you think will happen to your child if he/she hears a bad word. Explain why saying crap is OK, and {censored} isn't? or even why penis is OK but cock isn't? (as just a couple of examples) Tell me the true story of someone you personally know who's life was ruined because they heard a bad word at a young age. Tell me why you are incapable of explaining to your children that some language isn't appropriate in certain situations. Explain why you think bad words are OK for you and your friends but are harmful to young people. In other words convince me you are not just mindlessly foisting senseless taboos on your children. Convince me you are not a hypocrite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted April 7, 2006 Members Share Posted April 7, 2006 I think a lot of that is done by parents without really thinking it through. It's an automatic sort of "Bad words are bad. Of course they are, or they wouldn't be called 'bad.' So I'm gonna keep my kids away from them." It's far better, in my opinion, if the parents sit down and talk about the "bad" words with their children rather than trying the clearly futile exercise of trying to keep their kid in a glass bubble and ultimately having their kid learn bad words from everyone else but them. But some people are very uncomfortable with discussing these things with their kids (or things like sex or other issues), and for them, trying to isolate their kids from these "bad" things is their easy way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted April 7, 2006 Moderators Share Posted April 7, 2006 Originally posted by Hard Truth Parents- I need help with understanding your concern.Someone please explain to me what horrible things you think will happen to your child if he/she hears a bad word.Explain why saying crap is OK, and {censored} isn't? or even why penis is OK but cock isn't? (as just a couple of examples) Tell me the true story of someone you personally know who's life was ruined because they heard a bad word at a young age.Tell me why you are incapable of explaining to your children that some language isn't appropriate in certain situations.Explain why you think bad words are OK for you and your friends but are harmful to young people.In other words convince me you are not just mindlessly foisting senseless taboos on your children. Convince me you are not a hypocrite. I feel like I'm having a conversation with myself 10 years ago. I understand what's been said in your post and really do understand your point. My kid won't melt if she hear's "bad" words. At the same time, a parent has to, to some degree, control a child's environment. It's easy for a 9 year old kid to misinterpret a singer shouting {censored} as a viable means of communication, when in fact, for a 9 year old, it isn't. Green Day has themselves in an interesting position in that their music has been latched onto by kids younger than they ever thought would. I am not incapable of explaining to my child "some language isn't appropriate in certain situations". In fact, I'm pretty good at it, if I can brag a little. I'm not running around saying Green Day should be banned. So... why does it matter to me if American Idiot has a clean version? Why? Because if I hand over this CD to her and say... go at it. Dig it kid... it's easy for a kid that age to put the use of these words in the wrong context. Context is the key: "Hey {censored}erhead, order me a burger, I'm going to take a crap (said in line at Mc Donald's) isn't cool. {censored}! I just slammed my bad knee on the corner of that table... (that's ok) Mind{censored} America: That's a great way of saying a lot, but I don't think my kid is ready to have to deal with putting this stuff "in context". I'm just a hopeless, clueless dad, trying my best... and I love rock and roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Johnny Storm Posted April 7, 2006 Members Share Posted April 7, 2006 Originally posted by Lee Knight I feel like I'm having a conversation with myself 10 years ago. That seems kind of condescending, IMO, but I guess you didn't mean it that way. Originally posted by Lee Knight At the same time, a parent has to, to some degree, control a child's environment. It's easy for a 9 year old kid to misinterpret a singer shouting FUCK as a viable means of communication, when in fact, for a 9 year old, it isn't. So, according to that logic, you probably don't let your kids see you driving a car because they're not old enough to drive themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted April 7, 2006 Moderators Share Posted April 7, 2006 Originally posted by Johnny Storm That seems kind of condescending, IMO, but I guess you didn't mean it that way. So, according to that logic, you probably don't let your kids see you driving a car because they're not old enough to drive themselves. No I didn't mean it that way at all. I'm not saying that 10 years have made me 10 years smarter either. Regarding your driving analogy, you've got to work on that one a bit... s -t- r- e-t- c-h. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Johnny Storm Posted April 7, 2006 Members Share Posted April 7, 2006 Well, I think you guys are really stretching it on the language thing, so the analogy is appropriate. Words don't hurt people. People hurt people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted April 7, 2006 Moderators Share Posted April 7, 2006 No fuckin' way! Now someone needs to print this up and mail it to my daughter. Then I'll have to white out all my effers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Base Posted April 8, 2006 Members Share Posted April 8, 2006 To answer the original question, Napster(UK at least) does have an explicit and non-explicit version for download... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members felix Posted April 8, 2006 Author Members Share Posted April 8, 2006 To me, it's no different from me not allowing my 9-year old to watch a movie I feel is inappropriate. Kids are sponges, and will absorb anything in their proximity. However, their capacity for what they can do with what they absorb is sometimes limited. My son's judgement is not the judgement of a 13 year old, a 17 year old, a 21 year old, or even a 30 year old. He's still fine-tuning his manners and learning to communicate effectively and speak respectfully. He's grasping a lot of new nuances to language use and his vocabulary is growing very rapidly - and yes, there are a handful of words that I'd prefer to keep out of his arsenal for now. I'm sure he's heard the f-word before, and he knows it's a word he shouldn't use. That doesn't, IMO, make it a good (or even ok) idea for me to put it on heavy rotation for his ears. So yes, I think some things are ok at certain maturity levels and not at others. My cable box also requires a password to watch anything beyond PG-13 or TV-14. In this day and age of instant-on-demand-uncensored everything, I think that some moderation is a good thing - at least that's one tool I use in trying to be a responsible parent for my kids. Maybe this will put this in context a bit more. Remember, he's 9 and in 3rd grade. No cuss words are in regular use for him - in fact, "name calling" words like "stupid" or "poopy-head" are still pretty charged for him and used sparingly for effect when he's looking to make a power-play. In fact, my kids have even learned to avoid the phrase "shut up" (due to its rudeness factor) if "be quiet" is really what they're trying to say. I'm sure some of you think this sounds like I'm a real conservative, strict dad, but I know their language use will expand over time anyway, and I'm not really thinking there's any advantage to accellerating or leap-frogging the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted April 8, 2006 Moderators Share Posted April 8, 2006 Felix... you have said it better than I ever could have. Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Roy Brooks Posted April 9, 2006 Members Share Posted April 9, 2006 Just get him the record. He can handle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members felix Posted April 10, 2006 Author Members Share Posted April 10, 2006 I'm still just surprised that there's no clean version available. I'll have to admit when I first couldn't find it at Wal-Mart, I thought there was at least a possibility Wal-Mart had made the decision not to carry it because of the political content. I guess there's also a possiblity that there's no clean version because Green Day decided to give the finger to Wal-Mart. At any rate, I think it had to be a conscious decision on someone's part - I can't imagine a label unintentionally leaving out he US' largest record chain by accident. As successful as the album has been, wonder if it'd been any more successful if a clean version had been available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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