The great Epi Les Paul experiment (very long)

[notcool]

I have a black Epiphone Les Paul Custom that originally came with chrome hardware and mirrored plastic parts (switch ring, input jack, truss rod cover, and pickguard). I bought it back in 2000 and it is made by Saein of Korea. I believe the body is made of agathis. I don't think it has a maple top because it's pretty light compared to a Gibson.

Anyway, I made a few improvements to it. First, the pickup switch died on me, which was no surprise after reading about what happens to other Epi owners. So, new switch.

Second, the plastic nut had to go. Plastic nuts cause tuning problems when friction builds up in the string slots and you hear that little 'click' while you're tuning. So I had a Graph Tech Trem Nut installed. The guitar plays fine now.

Third, the mirrored plastic parts had to go. I replaced them with black plastic parts. I even found a Les Paul Custom truss rod cover that was designed to fit the Korean Epiphones. The guitars built by Saein, Unsung, and Samick have demented-looking bell-shaped truss rod covers that look just like the ones found on the cheap Les Paul copies back in the mid-1970s. I also replaced the jack plate with a chrome plated metal one.

I decided not to change out the pickups because the stock pickups are pretty hot and they don't squeal like the older Epiphone pickups. The guitar is pretty much the way I want it, and I like it for lead playing. I used it for most of the lead guitar tracks on all three of my solo albums.

[ihavenofish]

"I believe the body is made of agathis. I don't think it has a maple top because it's pretty light compared to a Gibson"

epi customs are "supposed to be" mahogany with an alder cap and a mahogany neck (debates about what real mahogany is asside). but i have no idea how consistent that is. his may actually be maple. mine is mahogany capped. i find epis are also thinner than gibsons by about 1/8 - 1/4" which probably contributes to being lighter more than the different cap material.

[the new guy]

Pete-

I understand the improvement in sound with the Graph Tech saddles, but could you not have put them on the stock Epi bridge, and gotten the same result ? Or is the Epi bridge made of junk metal ? Not doubting your results, just curious. What makes the Gotoh bridge give an improvement in sound ?

[SlickCat]

Here is a good article on the wiring of an original 59 Gibby.
http://www.singlecoil.com/docs/paula.pdf

[atrox]

Pete- I understand the improvement in sound with the Graph Tech saddles, but could you not have put them on the stock Epi bridge, and gotten the same result ? Or is the Epi bridge made of junk metal ? Not doubting your results, just curious. What makes the Gotoh bridge give an improvement in sound ?

 

 

Switching out the cast bridges on these Epi's makes for one of the best tone improvements you can make. The cast bridges really do hinder sustain and they are usually pretty loose. It's the first thing I do on an Epi.

[the new guy]

Switching out the cast bridges on these Epi's makes for one of the best tone improvements you can make. The cast bridges really do hinder sustain and they are usually pretty loose. It's the first thing I do on an Epi.

 

 

Atrox-

What replacement are you using ? is there more than one choice ?

 

thanks

[atrox]

Atrox- What replacement are you using ? is there more than one choice ? thanks

I like the Schaller Nashville's. You'll have to dowel up the old holes, but it's worth it. I know some places sell conversion posts too that may work instead of dowels. Not sure how well they work though

[ihavenofish]

you can buy gotoh's with metric posts as well for a direct fit. i dont really know if larger vs smaller posts make any audible difference. ive only ever switched posts from small to large on my sx strat, and the stock one was $2 at most while the replacement was epi level

[atrox]

you can buy gotoh's with metric posts as well for a direct fit. i dont really know if larger vs smaller posts make any audible difference. ive only ever switched posts from small to large on my sx strat, and the stock one was $2 at most while the replacement was epi level

It's not so much the post size, it's how tight teh bridge sits on the posts and also, just the quality of metal used

[stanfield]

cool mods Pete, and thanks for the clip Coop.

 

Cooper: did you ever answer your cap questions, 47's over 22's and wiring placement?

[strat les sg]

almost done doin my friends approx.40 year old Epi LP blacky.waitin for diagonal screwed tuners from allparts to come on monday,went with the guitarfetish pots& pups,all the gold was discolored ,replaced with all chrome,looks & sounds good

[neilr11]

Thanks for sharing!

[bobbyscotty]

I changed the pickups, switch and pots on my Epi G400 (Epiphones' SG). I put a Duncan JB in at the bridge and Duncan Distortion at the neck. What started it all was an unreliable switch.

Since both pickups are coil tapped, my volume controls are now push-pull to activate the coil taps. What a difference from the original in sound. I used a wiring diagram from Duncan's website. The coil taps give me 4 distinct sounds but I am not a tone snob so I can't begin to describe how they sound. The single coil on the neck give tone with a lot of "snap." That the only way to describe it.

I did move the strap pin to the top horn. This, along with the wide leather strap got rid of the neck heavy feel.

I though about buying a "real" SG but can't justify spending the money.

[dcooper830]

cool mods Pete, and thanks for the clip Coop. Cooper: did you ever answer your cap questions, 47's over 22's and wiring placement?

Oh yeah.. I did find the 47's were a little extreme so I replaced them with some 22 orange drop caps from Guitarfetish and now I get a more natural tone roll off.

I'm still lovin' this guitar!!

[GAS Man]

Looks great Pete. Great thread too.

I wish I was up to that level of modding myself. I haven't broken my soldering hymen yet on guitars. I'm plagued by bad memories of failed motor soldering from my childhood days. But I'm pretty sure now I know what I used to do wrong. But that sounds like a great project.

So by the way, am I to understand that less mass on the tail piece is a tone plus? I guess I could see where it might possibly transmit a bit more string energy to the wood, but no sure.

[purple-haze]

great advice and report, Cheers

[Timmott]

So by the way, am I to understand that less mass on the tail piece is a tone plus? I guess I could see where it might possibly transmit a bit more string energy to the wood, but no sure.

I'm wondering this myself. I'm thinking about changing the bridge and tailpiece on my Epiphone and Agile.

[eor]

can you do all that crap that you did to the lp to your sheraton, too? have one and is curious. saw the bridge, but what improvement can be expected from all that work?

love,
eor

[atrox]

Looks great Pete. Great thread too. I wish I was up to that level of modding myself. I haven't broken my soldering hymen yet on guitars. I'm plagued by bad memories of failed motor soldering from my childhood days. But I'm pretty sure now I know what I used to do wrong. But that sounds like a great ject. So by the way, am I to understand that less mass on the tail piece is a tone plus? I guess I could see where it might possibly transmit a bit more string energy to the wood, but no sure.

It's actually more mass in less material. The posts are smaller, but the metal itself is more dense and weighs a hell of a lot more than those cast asian TOM's. Plus they usually sit more snug on the posts. And like you said.. more energy to the wood.

[the new guy]

I like the Schaller Nashville's. You'll have to dowel up the old holes, but it's worth it. I know some places sell conversion posts too that may work instead of dowels. Not sure how well they work though

Sorry to beat a dead horse, but what are the Schallers and Gotoh's made of that enhance the tone? Would that be nickel, or what ?


On a side note, have you ever replaced a tune-o-matic with a wraparound ?
I know the hole spacing is different, just wondering if it's a worthwhile mod to consider.

I've got a Dot Deluxe and an Epi LP Studio that still have the stock bridges, so I'm thinking it's time for them to go............

[globalm]

I'm thinking of making some of these changes to my own Epi.

I'm looking at the Tonepros metric bridge and tailpiece (T3BT-C and T1Z-C). These would be a drop-in replacement I think. Is that correct?

I am looking at these as they advertise metric sizes and 'directly replaces Epiphone LP Standard', but they do seem more expensive. I take it that the quality is high? Sorry I don't know much about the relative merits of the various manufacturers!

Thanks.

[Rich4Once]

I changed the pickups and tailpiece on an Epi that I used to have (sold to my bandmate) and haven't done anything to the Epi '56 that I currently have. I'm really happy with it, but after reading all this I am considering changing out the nut and tailpiece, just to see what the difference is. Other than the hideous buzz under high gain conditions I'm happy with the pickups.

[_pete_]

Wow, a lot of new posts to this old thread.

 

I'm 99% sure that that guitar has a mahogany/maple body & mahogany neck. It's a heavy sucker too. That was my only gripe with it.

 

I'm not sure of exactly what metals the various bridges are made of but the difference was big. It was like taking a blanket off the guitar.

What I set out to do was replace every part on that guitar with Gibson equivalent (or better) parts.

It was a huge success IMO. When I got the Gibson LP Studio it was a very, very hard decision as to which guitar to keep. I kept the Gibby mostly for it's light weight and I figured if I sold it, I'd break even or make a little since I only paid $999 for it. Playability and tone were a wash.

In hindsight, I should have kept the Epi. Really.

[globalm]

_pete_

 

Just wanted to thank you for starting me down the Epi mods route!

 

I've just (nearly) completed the changes to my LP Standard.

 

I used a Tonepros metric bridge which fits on the existing inserts. This bridge locks down firmly.

 

I changed the standard p'ups to Irongear Rolling Mills and re-strung with D'Addario nickle-wound 9s.

 

WOW!

 

Sustain will now let you sound a chord, go to bed and have it still ringing in the morning (Well, nearly )

 

The tone is exactly what I was looking for from the p'ups. I would characterise it as 'power blues'. Great.

 

I am having some difficulty getting hold of the correct String Saver saddles at the moment but will fit these along with a suitable Trem-nut ASAP.

 

If any of you guys are thinking of doing this - JUST DO IT!

[the new guy]

?? I used this wiring diagram. http://guitarelectronics.zoovy.com/product/WDUHH3T2202

I have found several variations on this wiring -

http://www.axiomatic-music.co.uk/acatalog/CircuitDiagrams.html

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2h_2v_2t_3w

and this guy says this is the "proper way" to achieve LP tone
http://www.singlecoil.com/docs/paula.pdf

Is there really that much difference in "the tone" or is it all just bull{censored}? ?

It looks to me like most of them are just grounded differently.....