Is Agathis wood any good?

[garthman]

they don't but they do pick up the vibration of the strings which is affected by... you guessed it, the wood!!

 

 

So how does the wood effect the vibration of the string?

[garthman]

So now it is a conspiracy.

 

 

Nope, just people exploiting a myth to make some money just like lots of folk do.

[Acid Test]

So how does the wood effect the vibration of the string?

 

 

Holy {censored}, are you kidding me?

[garthman]

Holy {censored}, are you kidding me?

 

 

No, I'm not kidding you - please explain how you think the wood influences the vibrating string to any extent that is detectable by a magnetic pickup.

[GRANKOR]

softer wood will absorb more of the strings vibrations than harder wood will, taking a lot of the high end from it. I think you just like to argue. You sir are a moron

[garthman]

softer wood will absorb more of the strings vibrations than harder wood will, taking a lot of the high end from it. I think you just like to argue. You sir are a moron

 

 

But isn't the pole of the pickup sitting there about 1/8 of an inch under the string poised to detect the vibration long before the wood has any influence on it?

[GRANKOR]

no. the string is mounted one way or another to the wood. it WILL have an effect

[garthman]

no. the string is mounted one way or another to the wood. it WILL have an effect

 

 

OK. So how big is this effect that the wood has? If you condsider that the PU is sitting there directly under the string and the relatively huge amplitude of vibration caused by the string being plucked just above it is causing a flux in the magnetic field, how much of a different vibration is being cuased by the wood that is going to have any measurable effect on the PU?

 

And, by the way, I am not a moron, I'm simply employing reasoned arguements based on scientific principles. If you can present something more of a counter argument than "of course it makes a difference" I may come to think more of your intellect.

[GRANKOR]

go play guitars made out of different woods with the same pickups. A maple/ash strat and a rosewood/alder strat. come back and tell me they sound the same. they won't I assure you.

[Acid Test]

No, I'm not kidding you - please explain how you think the wood influences the vibrating string to any extent that is detectable by a magnetic pickup.

 

 

 

It is called resonance and has to do with the natural frequencies of vibration of the wood. This occurs in virtually all solid matter and are a major consideration for mechanical engineers. Example: the 1940 Tacoma Bridge failure.

 

For wood, different woods have different resonant frequencies. The natural frequencies of oscillation of the wood combine with string oscillations increasing the amplitude at these certain frequencies which is detected by the transducer. In this case the transducer is the pickup. The natural frequencies of vibration are different for different types of wood. For example, maple is hard and has a bright sound since the natural resonant frequencies are higher and amplified. Mahogany has lower natural resonant frequencies so it tends to sound darker.

 

Any physicists want to chime in?

[garthman]

I am not disputing for one minute the fact that the string vibrations will not cause some degree of vibration in the wood of the guitar (although any such sympathetic vibration will be very much weaker in a thick piece of wood - like an electric guitar - than they would be in a thin piece of wood - like an acoustic guitar). The problem is that any vibration in the wood cannot be detected directly by a magnetic PU. So, does the vibrating wood cause the string to vibrate again, or in a different way? If so, how large is this difference compared to the original amplitude of vibration of the string? Is the PU responsive enough to detect it? Wouldn't a vibration of a different frequecy be undesirable because it would be disonant to the original frequency? Why, when electric guitars are designed and constructed specifically to reduce interference caused by erroneous vibrations, would anyone want to build them so that intereference occurs?

[metalheadUK]

Well, I see that agathis is used a lot in all the dirt-cheap low-end guitars and in none of the expensive ones, so I guess you kinda have your answer right there?

Yes, but that assuming that the expensive guitars are better than the cheap ones...not always the case.

[metalheadUK]

Your Affinity Tele should be Alder Marc

Well ok then, Agathis is {censored}!

[Ratae Corieltauvorum]

Well ok then, Agathis is {censored}!

But of course it don't make no difference.....oh btw, the R8 is in my kitchen at home;)

[Welladjusted]

Agathis can get the job done, but it's not my first choice.

 

But different strokes for different folks. Steve Morse swears by poplar as a tonewood but most folks go for mahogany, basswood or alder.

[metalheadUK]

I must be honest, I struggle to grasp all the stuff that apparently makes a difference to an electric guitars tone.

I do hear some guitars that I prefer the sound of, but it seems to bear little relationship to what they are made out of or how much they cost.

My friend has an early 70s reissue '54 black beauty that I had on long term loan for a long time, the one with the bridge P90, and neck Alnico.

I nearly bought it, but I used it for about a year, and I couldn't get over how dark and unfocused it sounded. It's a beautiful guitar, but FOR ME, my modern Gibsons are hugely preferable...I just think they sound better.

A Vintage guitar, chock full of mojo, and it didn't do it for me.

Funny thing is, everyone who sees it falls in loive with it..if only we heard with our eyes.

[Burningleaves]

I am not disputing for one minute the fact that the string vibrations will not cause some degree of vibration in the wood of the guitar (although any such sympathetic vibration will be very much weaker in a thick piece of wood - like an electric guitar - than they would be in a thin piece of wood - like an acoustic guitar). The problem is that any vibration in the wood cannot be detected directly by a magnetic PU. So, does the vibrating wood cause the string to vibrate again, or in a different way? If so, how large is this difference compared to the original amplitude of vibration of the string? Is the PU responsive enough to detect it? Wouldn't a vibration of a different frequecy be undesirable because it would be disonant to the original frequency? Why, when electric guitars are designed and constructed specifically to reduce interference caused by erroneous vibrations, would anyone want to build them so that intereference occurs?

Still no thoughts on semi-hollow / hollowbody electrics?..........

[Ratae Corieltauvorum]

Still no thoughts on semi-hollow / hollowbody electrics?..........

he starts to froth at the mouth when he thinks about that, and don't ask him about nut material either. or you'll really {censored} him up bad:cry:

[garthman]

Do you share the same view on fretboard materials...Ebony, Brazilian Rosewood, EI Rosewood, Maple, etc.? Does that affect the sound at all to you?

 

 

For an acoustic guitar, experiments conducted in the 19th centrury using different materials discovered that the contribution of each body section to the sound of the instrument is apportioned as follows:

 

Top: 85%

 

Bottom: 10%

 

Sides and neck: 5%

 

From this you would expect the fretboard (which only makes up about 1/4 or less of the neck) to contribute very little indeed to the sound. This is not really suprising. The main point of the fretbaod is to enable the string length to be altered to change its tone so the wood here is subject to a lot of wear and tear so tough hardwoods are traditionally used (ebony and rosewood, mainly - maple is a recent "fad" and when used is almost always coated with a tough finish).

 

Any contribution to the sound would of course be even less on an electric guitar because wood vibrations will not be detacted by the pickup.

[metalheadUK]

But of course it don't make no difference.....oh btw, the R8 is in my kitchen at home;)

C'mon...whats it LIKE?

[Ratae Corieltauvorum]

C'mon...whats it LIKE?

 

Dunno.....I'm at work:confused:

 

Pictures at 11

[vonscott]

Don't have much experience w/ agathis. I have had quite a few of basswood and only really like the sound of one. The others were ok but just not my sound.

Can't help but chime in on the tonewood debate though. I have a Seymour JB that has found it's way into four different guitars over the years and It sounds VERY different in each one of them!

I don't know the physics behind it, but if wood didn't make any difference then I could get the pickup I liked the best and put it in all my guitars and they would all sound the same. That would really make things a lot easier, but

it just don't work that way.

[garthman]

Still no thoughts on semi-hollow / hollowbody electrics?..........

Sorry - preoccupied with the solid wood debate. Put simply, the thinner the wood of the guitar (whether it is a thin top with a hollow inside or even a very thin guitar) the more effect the wood will have because it will vibrate more (although quite how big and effect different woods would have is debatable - it's the thickness of the wood that is by far the most important consideration).

When Les Paul was developing PU's, he first mounted them onto acoustic guitars but discovered that the vibrating top caused the PU's themselves to vibrate which produced interference patterns in the sound. He had a special guitar made for him with a top 1/2 inch thick and found this helped a lot. From there he went on to the solid body which cured the problem altogether.

[Save The Pine Weasel]

I don't know the physics behind it, but if wood didn't make any difference then I could get the pickup I liked the best and put it in all my guitars and they would all sound the same. That would really make things a lot easier, but

 

If everything else about the guitars was exactly the same.

[Burningleaves]

Sorry - preoccupied with the solid wood debate. Put simply, the thinner the wood of the guitar (whether it is a thin top with a hollow inside or even a very thin guitar) the more effect the wood will have because it will vibrate more (although quite how big and effect different woods would have is debatable - it's the thickness of the wood that is by far the most important consideration). When Les Paul was developing PU's, he first mounted them onto acoustic guitars but discovered that the vibrating top caused the PU's themselves to vibrate which produced interference patterns in the sound. He had a special guitar made for him with a top 1/2 inch thick and found this helped a lot. From there he went on to the solid body which cured the problem altogether.

 

 

 

 

I would think the unwaxed pups of the time played a hand in it all.