Members Tusks Posted November 10, 2006 Author Members Share Posted November 10, 2006 Originally posted by alfonso Been awhile since I've seen that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fishmanrod Posted November 10, 2006 Members Share Posted November 10, 2006 I agree that a lot of the instrument simulations are OK for some situations, but generally don't sound like the real thing. If you want subtly plucked nylon string guitar, play one. However, in some situations (more live than recorded, from my experience) using a synth imitation sound of a traditional instrument to fill and provide the pad is cool and practical. If you play ONE tune a night that needs horns, are you going to hire a horn section, or use an octave horn patch on your keyboard? That being said the real realm of synth is making NEW sounds, things never heard before. It's really hard to make a synth sound exactly like a guitar. It's really hard to make a guitar sound NOT like a guitar. It is much easeir and more fun to realize a sound you hear in your head with a synth than with other instruments. They sky is the limit! I agree whole heartedly with the idea that it is the player, not the instrument that makes a great performance. Every hear a great guitar player make a 00 dollar guitar sound great? Same idea. Anyone remember when Dillon went electric? He wasn't paying a 'real guitar' any more! Right. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tusks Posted November 10, 2006 Author Members Share Posted November 10, 2006 Despite Raymar's, excellent summary which unfortunately has a lot of truth to it ... I feel constrained by dualities, so let me take a stab some other ways of thinking: - Synths as EFX processors. Stick something in one end and get something alien or familiar out the other. - Synths as sonic wallpaper. Got a track than needs a little "sparkle"? Fire up a plug-in. Double some tracks. Add a little sweetening. - Synths as solo (non-avantgarde) instruments. Think Rick Wakeman, Pat Metheny or Jan Hammer. - Synths as non-emulative role playing instruments. Think of swelling pads in a movie that aren't string beds but play the same emotional role with different imagery. Anybody got any more? Best, Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bp Posted November 10, 2006 Members Share Posted November 10, 2006 See if you think this guy is playing instruments.http://eed.udm.ru/nadishana/Rus/InstrumentsEng.htm Try the teapot, beer tins and other "instruments" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted November 10, 2006 Moderators Share Posted November 10, 2006 Since Weather Report has been mentioned recently... I've always loved Joe Zawinal's approach to the synth. He never imitates an instrument but he does evoke places. He can use a woody sound like a log drum as an attack on a wood flute type sound and all of a sudden I'm in a jungle. Couple that with his harmonic and rhythmic insight and that's an instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted November 10, 2006 Members Share Posted November 10, 2006 Originally posted by Billster I'll add to that the idea that some guitar players look down their nose at players who use a lot of effects. Hey, it's just another means of expression - and look at guys like Bill Frisell and John Scofield, who have monster straight ahead chops and a savvy approach to electronics.As for sythesizers in particular, being strictly imitative with them is a mistake, IMO. You can do a lot with imitative approaches, but you can do more when imitate is combined with innovate. Now... I have to say that it's not necessarily that they USE FX but the way they use them... but I have records by both those guitarists -- who clearly have plenty of music in them and great chops -- but I can't stand to listen to them because of the way the guitars sound on most of the album. The Scofield album I have, especially, is, to me unlistenable because of the horrible, time-robbing, slurry chorus-type FX he uses on it. But, while I have a strong distaste for chorus and flange fx on guitar, it's not that they're always deal-killers. There are some Richard Thompson tracks that use a hint of chorus that don't bother me all that much. I simply find the sound unpleasant and distasteful. I also think it tends to obscure good playing with its time slurring. (One use I find a little less off-putting is in "keyboard style" guitar comping with flange or chorus, where the guitar takes the place of a rhythmic organ part.) Now, depending on the use and settings, I have less problems with Leslies on guitar... although a bad Leslie sim is usually not gonna work for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nobrainer440 Posted November 10, 2006 Members Share Posted November 10, 2006 Originally posted by Tusks - What are you talking about? Notice how many hit songs are out there with keyboard based tracks? Keyboards are powerful instruments in their own right. Originally posted by UstadKhanAli I would much rather listen to a cheap Casio that runs on a handful of "D" batteries played by a creative genius than a Bosendorfer played by a tasteless moron.It's all about the player and the creativity. Exactly. If a well-written song is played by a skilled player (or even by an average to poor player if the song is simple enough not to be destroyed), I'll listen, regardless of instrumentation. Extremely poor sound may annoy me, but by no means do all keyboards fall into that category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Billster Posted November 10, 2006 Members Share Posted November 10, 2006 Originally posted by blue2blue Now... I have to say that it's not necessarily that they USE FX but the way they use them... but I have records by both those guitarists -- who clearly have plenty of music in them and great chops -- but I can't stand to listen to them because of the way the guitars sound on most of the album. The Scofield album I have, especially, is, to me unlistenable because of the horrible, time-robbing, slurry chorus-type FX he uses on it.But, while I have a strong distaste for chorus and flange fx on guitar, it's not that they're always deal-killers. There are some Richard Thompson tracks that use a hint of chorus that don't bother me all that much.I simply find the sound unpleasant and distasteful. I also think it tends to obscure good playing with its time slurring.(One use I find a little less off-putting is in "keyboard style" guitar comping with flange or chorus, where the guitar takes the place of a rhythmic organ part.)Now, depending on the use and settings, I have less problems with Leslies on guitar... although a bad Leslie sim is usually not gonna work for me. I was thinking mostly of the way Scofield and Frisell use looping effects in their live rigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tusks Posted November 10, 2006 Author Members Share Posted November 10, 2006 Originally posted by TinderArts See if you think this guy is playing instruments. http://eed.udm.ru/nadishana/Rus/InstrumentsEng.htmTry the teapot, beer tins and other "instruments" The Teapot and the Chinese Hu-Lu-si were standouts for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cooterbrown Posted November 11, 2006 Members Share Posted November 11, 2006 Check out some Vangelis videos on Youtube and see what a human can do with synths.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkOWLigKvm4&mode=related&search=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCWraLv8VFQ&mode=related&search= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tusks Posted November 11, 2006 Author Members Share Posted November 11, 2006 Originally posted by cooterbrown Check out some Vangelis videos on Youtube and see what a human can do with synths.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_jsMPiTaqEhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lUclodLNiA&mode=related&search=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkOWLigKvm4&mode=related&search=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCWraLv8VFQ&mode=related&search= Awesome. I found this one to be amazingly persuasive also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tksji4XyLP0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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