Members franknputer Posted January 30, 2007 Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 Frank; Send us your info at musicians@lightspeedaudiolabs.com If you have a myspace page, website, and/or bio, that would be very helpful. Ideally, we'd really like to hear all the musicians beforehand. But send us your info, we may be able to squeeze you in sooner than later! Jim Done - by the way, the name's actually Christopher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JimAtLightspeed Posted January 30, 2007 Author Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 Under 2ms with at least CD quality audio. I'd like to beam up to the Starship Enterprise, but when it's possible, I probably won't be doing over the web! Even an Asio driver is more than 2 ms delay. Sound travels at roughly one foot per ms, which means that at your desired 2ms, your band members better smell pretty good if you want to jam with them in "real time"! But hey, we can all wish, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members franknputer Posted January 30, 2007 Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 Under 2ms with at least CD quality audio. Don't ask much, do ya booshie? I'd settle for decent monitoring quality, as long as resulting files were high-quality. We stream our stations with a 32k aac+ codec, and they sound really quite good even at that low bit rate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boosh Posted January 30, 2007 Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 Don't ask much, do ya booshie? I'd settle for decent monitoring quality, as long as resulting files were high-quality. We stream our stations with a 32k aac+ codec, and they sound really quite good even at that low bit rate! Don't forget that with jamming you need two people on each side of the fence. 2ms isn't that much to ask,...player >>>> secondplayer 2ms + secondplayer >>>>> player 2ms = allready 4 ms anything over 4ms gets musicians nervous. Ask Craig if he'd like to have his Vsti's have a latency of 8ms,.. he'd go nuts. I bet the gypsy guitarplayers pull their knives also when timing differences like that occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JimAtLightspeed Posted January 30, 2007 Author Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 Don't ask much, do ya booshie? I'd settle for decent monitoring quality, as long as resulting files were high-quality. We stream our stations with a 32k aac+ codec, and they sound really quite good even at that low bit rate! Thank you! BTW, audio quality will be great - sound quality is a big issue for us, as one of our co-founders (Dr. Quakenbush) helped develop AAC! For now I can tell you that, but no more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boosh Posted January 30, 2007 Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 I'd like to beam up to the Starship Enterprise, but when it's possible, I probably won't be doing over the web! Even an Asio driver is more than 2 ms delay. Sound travels at roughly one foot per ms, which means that at your desired 2ms, your band members better smell pretty good if you want to jam with them in "real time"! But hey, we can all wish, right? Try playing a virtual instrument with 8ms delay,.... I bet you get sick of the latency in 5 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boosh Posted January 30, 2007 Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 ,...... forgot this: I in fact are not interested in playing with other people online but I know a lot of folks are and they get dissapointed time after time. If you have a solution for them,..Hail to you and Good for them. Booshy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John Sayers Posted January 30, 2007 Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 Try playing a virtual instrument with 8ms delay,....I bet you get sick of the latency in 5 minutes. That's not what he's saying Booshy - I agree that when you hit a chord on your virtual instrument and it sounds 8ms later it's a pain - he's saying that maybe the person you are playing with is 8ms behind you - on stage that's what happens if he is 8 feet away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JimAtLightspeed Posted January 30, 2007 Author Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 That's not what he's saying Booshy - I agree that when you hit a chord on your virtual instrument and it sounds 8ms later it's a pain - he's saying that maybe the person you are playing with is 8ms behind you - on stage that's what happens if he is 8 feet away. EXACTLY!!!!!! Thanks! See, there are no secrets here...well, maybe a few Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boosh Posted January 30, 2007 Members Share Posted January 30, 2007 That's not what he's saying Booshy - I agree that when you hit a chord on your virtual instrument and it sounds 8ms later it's a pain - he's saying that maybe the person you are playing with is 8ms behind you - on stage that's what happens if he is 8 feet away. I know what he's saying. I allready explained to Jim in a PM why I'm such a pain in the ass. When it is possible to get close to jamming on stage that's where it gets interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dahkter Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 Very cool, sounds promising and exciting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members franknputer Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 Well, nothing ventured nothing gained, dude. I'm willing to give it a go & provide the best feedback that I can, in order to make it happen. When I was writing reviews of BeOS music software I also gave feedback that helped a few guys shape their software, and even if it ended up being a small corner of history it was still a really cool corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JimAtLightspeed Posted January 31, 2007 Author Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 Very cool, sounds promising and exciting... send us your info, we need some brooklyn in our beta! i used to live in dumbo and had friends in Red Hook, the Slope, Cobble Hill, etc. where are you in brooklyn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Antman261 Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 Booshie, the difference you feel between 8ms of latency monitoring the playback of your own instrument and 8ms hearing someone elses instrument is a bit different. You'll notice it less if it's someone else's instrument being delayed provided it's under about 40ms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cry Logic Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 Robin Nolan ,..........Gypsy Jazz,....now we're talking +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ultravibe Posted January 31, 2007 Members Share Posted January 31, 2007 This sounds very cool - My chops are probably not up to studio standards right now, but I forwarded this on to a guitar player friend who is definitely in that category. Hope you don't mind SSS'ers once removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bunny Knutson Posted February 1, 2007 Members Share Posted February 1, 2007 The potential here is awesome! I used to be very skeptical about the concept of "real-time internet jamming," but then I realized that it's silly to argue about it - just wait and see if it ever happens. Now, I'm fairly certain it could be done with low enough latency to make it seem like real-time, like playing on a big stage, as mentioned. If there's ever going to be any beta testing in the SF Bay Area, I'd be very interested to participate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Antman261 Posted February 1, 2007 Members Share Posted February 1, 2007 I'm guessing from the name we're talking about fibreoptics here anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John Sayers Posted February 1, 2007 Members Share Posted February 1, 2007 I'm guessing from the name we're talking about fibreoptics here anyway? yes, I'm sure your Internet speed will be a factor but considering the net is going to get faster and faster for everyone relatively as more access comes your way, I'm glad to see that someone is working on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JimAtLightspeed Posted February 1, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 1, 2007 yes, I'm sure your Internet speed will be a factor but considering the net is going to get faster and faster for everyone relatively as more access comes your way, I'm glad to see that someone is working on it. for sure the web is getting faster and thats great, but we work today, on DSL and cable modems. there are a lot of companies in the space at the moment, but I can promise you, we're doing things very differently than anyone out there, both in terms of technology, and what the experience will be for both musicians and your fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lee Flier Posted February 1, 2007 Members Share Posted February 1, 2007 Count me curious as well Jim, I sent ya an email... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JimAtLightspeed Posted February 1, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 1, 2007 Count me curious as well Jim, I sent ya an email... saw that Lee, you'll be hearing from me today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted February 1, 2007 Members Share Posted February 1, 2007 That's not what he's saying Booshy - I agree that when you hit a chord on your virtual instrument and it sounds 8ms later it's a pain - he's saying that maybe the person you are playing with is 8ms behind you - on stage that's what happens if he is 8 feet away. But it probably isn't going to be any 8 ms... As noted, it takes an analog signal travelling over "straight wire" about 6 ms to go 1000 miles in one direction. Add in digital conversion and buffering. And even if the technology is peer-to-peer, that is NOT a direct station to station signal, it's still broken into packets to travel jumb-by-jump over the internet (it simply doesn't have to go to a central server in between, hence the name). There is no such thing as a "direct" signal over the internet. So on top of the physical signal transmission time, on top of the digital conversion/buffering, you will STILL have packet transmission time, which involves its own delays. It's a great promise but it's hard to see how it fits into what most of us think of as "realtime." Or even near-realtime. With regard to realtime playing and large musician spreads -- the reason a small chamber orchestra doesn't need a conductor is because the players can sit close enough that they can hear each other without too much delay. OTOH, a symphony orchestra -- or in the extreme, a marching band -- needs a visual reference (conductor, drum major) in order to coordinate -- since the delays from front to back and side to side preclude getting timely cues from the "far side" of the orchestra/band. (BTW, I just pinged my own site server in Arizona (about 400 miles)... r/t average time: 22 ms. I pinged a couple of NYC servers: 94 ms and 102 ms.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted February 1, 2007 Members Share Posted February 1, 2007 That's not what he's saying Booshy - I agree that when you hit a chord on your virtual instrument and it sounds 8ms later it's a pain - he's saying that maybe the person you are playing with is 8ms behind you - on stage that's what happens if he is 8 feet away. But it probably isn't going to be any 8 ms... As noted, it takes an analog signal travelling over "straight wire" about 6 ms to go 1000 miles in one direction. Add in digital conversion and buffering. And even if the technology is peer-to-peer, that is NOT a direct station to station signal, it's still broken into packets to travel jumb-by-jump over the internet (it simply doesn't have to go to a central server in between, hence the name). There is no such thing as a "direct" signal over the internet. So on top of the physical signal transmission time, on top of the digital conversion/buffering, you will STILL have packet transmission time, which involves its own delays. It's a great promise but it's hard to see how it fits into what most of us think of as "realtime." Or even near-realtime. With regard to realtime playing and large musician spreads -- the reason a small chamber orchestra doesn't need a conductor is because the players can sit close enough that they can hear each other without too much delay. OTOH, a symphony orchestra -- or in the extreme, a marching band -- needs a visual reference (conductor, drum major) in order to coordinate -- since the delays from front to back and side to side preclude getting timely cues from the "far side" of the orchestra/band. (BTW, I just pinged my own site server in Arizona (about 400 miles)... r/t average time: 22 ms. I pinged a couple of NYC servers: 94 ms and 102 ms r/t. Physical distance is a key factor, here, again, due to those unrepealable laws of physics: 6ms per 1000 miles, one way -- and, again, that's for a simple, analog signal.) [I fully realize about 90% of you think I'm being a colossally compulsive PITA, here. No harm or offense intended. But I am compulsive about this stuff. When someone says something I know just doesn't make any sense, it's like a nail in the side of my head. I'm gonna try to pull it out -- even if it means my brains leak out along with it... ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JimAtLightspeed Posted February 1, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 1, 2007 If you think you're compulsive about this, you should meet the engineers over here figuring out how to deal with all the stuff you're bringing up! But I will say (in as intentionally vague a manner as is possible) that focusing only on theoretical numbers, without having any details about the technology or the experience, makes it really hard to "know" what makes sense or not in this case, doesn't it? We've already started to engage with a couple of folks on the site, and we really appreciate everyone's feedback and curiousity. More to come! Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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