Agile not Mahogany?

[twisty571]

the swietenia genus is the original group of 3 trees called mahogany. honduran is a name applied to 2 of those trees, the other is cuban. in modern times, only one is available commercially, and goes by "genuine", "honduras", "big leaf", and a few other names. it is native to south america, but has been transplanted to places like sri lanka and the philipines where it grows both wild and on plantations. all the swietenia woods are basically identical down to the molecular level, with no reliable means to differentiate just by looking at them. the properties that has made them so desirable are mechanical. they are strong, (relatively)hard, show little to no warping from green to dry. they resist decay, insects, and have a very pretty lustre and grain patterns that stain and finish uniformly. they also carve easy with minimal tearout and fuzz. basically they are a woodworkers wet dream. it was also abundant and cheap up until the later part of the 20th century. the genus khaya (african mahogany) is a close relative of swietenia in the expanded "mahogany family", and 2 of the 7 species make ideal substitutes. khaya is more coarse, denser, and slightly harder than swietenia. its also more prone to tear out and blotching when stained. for this reason, swietenia is still prefered when available in situations wher those properties matter. sapele is also from africa and similar to khaya, but harder and heavier, and generally stands on its own as an exotic. most builders wouldnt try to hide that a guitar is sapele as its considered a plus. sipo or "utile" is the brother of sapele, and is somewhere between khaya and sapele in properties. it tends to be alot more bland than sapele and can have a very dark red heartwood. im 70% sure my agile i posted is sipo looking at more and more samples. spanish cedar is another common south american mahogany, which like sapele is usually given its own category for trade, mostly because it smells like cedar. it has very similar properties and look to swietenia, but its more challenging to work because it fuzzes and tears. spanish cedar is also cites listed, which means it will likely be unavailable soon. gibson has used this wood for both necks and bodies on the melody maker (currently neck). indian red cedar, or toon, is the last wood in the mahogany family commonly used in guitars. i dont know much about it, and it doesnt seem to really look like its cousins. its used in a number of new squier guitars, so it cant be very expensive. it is often called chinese mahogany and philippine mahogany, which can be confusing because that term is applied to meranti as well, not to mention the swietenia macrophylla grown in the philippines. basically, "better" depends on what exactly you are doing. for furniture, swietenia has many benifits over its cousins. for guitars, its not as meaningful. swietenia might be more stable for neck than the others, but for a body, i dont think it matters structurally. with properly set up tools all of these woods can be carved easily, and conditioners and fillers make finishing uneventful.

 

 

thanks for the info very informative:)

[Ratae Corieltauvorum]

 

the ash used in agiles seem to be north american (swamp or northern) which has a distinct look. the SX guitars are definitely another variety of ash - of which there are hundreds all around the world.

 

 

Distinguishing swamp ash from Sen, which btw isn't ash, is nigh on impossible without some {censored}er writing it in a sharpie on the ends

 

Swamp ash (F. nigra) has a distinct pinkiness to it's "veins" where most species have more browniness, that piece of Sen up there ^^^ on Garys Lite Ash is about as Swamp ash looking as you can get.

 

If you want to look at the futility of distinguishing woods merely by looking have a look at Hobbits pages and his huge gallery of woods pics, then go and have oral sex;)

http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/

 

Sen

[ihavenofish]

Distinguishing swamp ash from Sen, which btw isn't ash, is nigh on impossible without some {censored}er writing it in a sharpie on the ends Swamp ash (F. nigra) has a distinct pinkiness to it's "veins" where most species have more browniness, that piece of Sen up there ^^^ on Garys Lite Ash is about as Swamp ash looking as you can get. If you want to look at the futility of distinguishing woods merely by looking have a look at Hobbits pages and his huge gallery of woods pics, then go and have oral sex;) http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/

iiiinteresting. th epics on hobbit house dont look alot like swamp ash though, similar, but different enough to know they arent the same wood i think.

kurt did state it was northern ash... but i guess theres no way of really knowing, and chances are, unless hes gone and specifically asked for a species, kurt probably doesnt know for sure either.

still a fun thread though. got any more species?

[Ratae Corieltauvorum]

iiiinteresting. th epics on hobbit house dont look alot like swamp ash though, similar, but different enough to know they arent the same wood i think.

 

Sen:

 

My swamp ash Strat.....and i even know the bayou this came from

[ihavenofish]

those pics look alot more like my SX ash guitars than the agile. at least as fard as colour and grain.

swamp ash usually has a "dirty" grain that none of the sen pics really have. the agiles do though (not just the one posted).

SX:


agile:


warmoth swamp ash:

[q149]

Well, at least their not made of cardboard like teh Epiphones.

[Ratae Corieltauvorum]

Well, at least their not made of cardboard like teh Epiphones.

 

 

Thats just silly

[ihavenofish]

http://www.projectyellow.ca/guitar_woods.pdf

 

updated my chart to incluse sen and the other nato.

[Dissy]

I call bull{censored} on everyone freaking out when they find out there agile has poor tone, or whatever the {censored} it is they think is wrong with it. The guitars sound fine, and I doubt every person here has such a trained ear they can recognize what grade of mahogany is used in a recording, or even live, if the guitar were using the same pups.

[TaZMaNiO]

I call bull{censored} on everyone freaking out when they find out there agile has poor tone, or whatever the {censored} it is they think is wrong with it. The guitars sound fine, and I doubt every person here has such a trained ear they can recognize what grade of mahogany is used in a recording, or even live, if the guitar were using the same pups.

Haha...I'm calling a BIG B$ on you buddy :poke:

For several years I'd drop-by Rondo music when it was still open in NJ and gave Agiles EVERY chance to impress me, but the tone was not my cup of tea

As a LONG-TIME Les Paul player for me they weren't even in the same ballpark and to top it off the necks were too thin

IMHO they sounded like nice toys for the money...

[ihavenofish]

Haha...I'm calling a BIG B$ on you buddy :poke: For several years I'd drop-by Rondo music when it was still open in NJ and gave Agiles EVERY chance to impress me, but the tone was not my cup of tea As a LONG-TIME Les Paul player for me they weren't even in the same ballpark and to top it off the necks were too thin IMHO they sounded like nice toys for the money...

sure, if you dont like em thats fine, but... whats that got to do with wood species?

[TaZMaNiO]

sure, if you dont like em thats fine, but... whats that got to do with wood species?

 

Whenever I try a guitar I listen to it acoustically - EVERY Agile I picked-up failed to meet my acoustic tone taste-test.

 

Let me spell it out for you:

I-T * W-A-S * T-H-E * W-O-O-D

 

Agiles just don't resonate and thump like a "good" Les paul and lacked the trademark throaty sound when plugged-in (the electronics also sucked).

 

Just my 25 cents (2 cents adjusted for Bernanke-Panky inflation)...

 

 

P.S. I also hate pancake body Norlin era Gibsons!

[BobbaFret]

I bet Ebay is full of Agiles now because of this thread.

[ihavenofish]

Whenever I try a guitar I listen to it acoustically - EVERY Agile I picked-up failed to meet my acoustic tone taste-test. Let me spell it out for you: I-T * W-A-S * T-H-E * W-O-O-D Agiles just don't resonate and thump like a "good" Les paul and lacked the trademark throaty sound when plugged-in (the electronics also sucked). Just my 25 cents (2 cents adjusted for Bernanke-Panky inflation)... P.S. I also hate pancake body Norlin era Gibsons!

im voting user error.

[BobbaFret]

Agiles just don't resonate and thump like a "good" Les paul and lacked the trademark throaty sound when plugged-in (the electronics also sucked)

 

 

They aren't Les Pauls:idea:

 

They're Agiles.

[Burningleaves]

If your going to shell out some bucks on a guitar I think knowing the wood type has some merit but............ at the price some of these imports sell at I am not sure worrying or being overly concerned what kind of solid wood the axe is made of is really worth it.

 

 

I think some folks actually believe it's all about the "name" when it comes to higher priced guitars. It's more than that.

[ihavenofish]

They aren't Les Pauls:idea: They're Agiles.

 

 

indeed, shape is about all they really have in common in the end.

[TaZMaNiO]

They aren't Les Pauls:idea: They're Agiles.

 

Funny thing is most Agile owners brag about saving money not buying the REAL LPs, comparing their asian knock-offs to Gibson USA LP Standards!

[ihavenofish]

Funny thing is most Agile owners brag about saving money not buying the REAL LPs, comparing their asian knock-offs to Gibson USA LP Standards!

and some people buy gibsons and post utterly wretched youtube videos of themselves playing bragging about how good the tone is.

theres stupid people everywhere

a good player who is familliar with his/her instrument will make it sound good. dont matter if its a cardboard box with rubber bands.

a bad guitar player... well, more accurately one who is musically inept(often shredder high gain types, but not always) will make EVERYTHING sound bad.

[Brewski]

I knew it!!! Gibson has that unique tone that just suits my Pallet:poke:

....Here is a dedicated Gibson employee delivering high quality Mahogany wood to the assembly line.

[SmoothJK]

Wow, I'm surprised no one has chimed in (including Kurt) to disprove this thread.

[jimytheassassin]

Well, that may be because this thread is a bit of a singularity, or black hole. Even if you manage to fix it.. another will be formed in it's place. And even if the species of wood was identical to a "holy grail" tone wood, the argument would shift to something else. I like how Bobbafret put it, These are Agiles, not Gibsons. I think the comparison between the two is meant to be very general, since every guitar is unique after all. We can talk about this for days on end, and all be right at the same time. Personal preference and experiential point of view is very hard to debate.

[walfordr]

Are Agiles really agile?

I mean they kind of just sit there unless you play them. How agile is that?

[Dissy]

Whenever I try a guitar I listen to it acoustically - EVERY Agile I picked-up failed to meet my acoustic tone taste-test. Let me spell it out for you: I-T * W-A-S * T-H-E * W-O-O-D Agiles just don't resonate and thump like a "good" Les paul and lacked the trademark throaty sound when plugged-in (the electronics also sucked). Just my 25 cents (2 cents adjusted for Bernanke-Panky inflation)... P.S. I also hate pancake body Norlin era Gibsons!

So the $200 guitars failed to impress you as much as the $2500 guitars?

[67mike]

Took my AL-3100 in to the local shop to see about a setup. They wanted to know about it, so I gave the specs, and one of the guys told me it wasn't mahogany. With my permission he opened up the back and shaved off a tiny bit of the paint/shielding on the edge of the inside of the pocket and showed that it was softer and lighter in color than real mahogany. What is it then? From looking at pictures of the grain it looks most similar to Meranti which is often sold as Mahogany even by Epi and other manufacturers. Any ideas? It plays great and I love the guitar but I just want to know what's up. Thanks, Nathan

It is made up of the dried JIZZ that they harvest from the snatches of all those underage prostitutes in Asia. Well, that and some really cheap {censored}ty stuff that grows like weeds over there.