20 watt tube amp

[Flintc]

A point that needs more emphasis: the amount of air you can move determines how loud something sounds. The more speaker surface area you are driving, the more air you are moving. So we always need to emphasize "all else being equal". A 20 watt amp pushing two 12 inch speakers will sound a lot louder than a 60 watt amp driving only one (of the same speaker). But it won't necessarily work better, due to headroom (sound quality) issues.

 

I use a 15 watt amp (Blues Jr.) for low-volume sessions (quiet or no drums, sax, piano). I use a 40 watt amp (Hot Rod Deluxe) for much louder playing. Both have single 12 inch speakers, and the HRD isn't all that much louder than the Blues Jr, but it is MUCH cleaner at higher volume levels. And that matters.

[golias]

When I use my SoCal 50, I keep it pretty much permanently switched to the low-power (25W) mode. It's plenty enough to be heard over the band. Almost too much, in fact. I've been eyeballing that 15W BlackHeart Handsome Devil for a while now.

 

100W tube amps are a big part of the reason why Pete Townsend has severe hearing loss and tinnitis these days. Most players will never need that kind of power in their stage rig.

[golias]

 

A point that needs more emphasis: the amount of air you can move determines how loud something sounds. The more speaker surface area you are driving, the more air you are moving. So we always need to emphasize "all else being equal". A 20 watt amp pushing two 12 inch speakers will sound a lot louder than a 60 watt amp driving only one (of the same speaker). But it won't necessarily work better, due to headroom (sound quality) issues. I use a 15 watt amp (Blues Jr.) for low-volume sessions (quiet or no drums, sax, piano). I use a 40 watt amp (Hot Rod Deluxe) for much louder playing. Both have single 12 inch speakers, and the HRD isn't all that much louder than the Blues Jr, but it is MUCH cleaner at higher volume levels. And that matters.

 

 

Adding speakers to the same amp will not make it significantly louder. It will just share the load between the speakers and allow you to reach higher volumes before encountering speaker break-up.

 

Yes, you are adding surface area, but you're not moving more air because each speaker is being pushed less, meaning the cone driver is moving in and out less distance. All three dimensions matter. That's why they call it "volume."

 

As for power: The general rule of thumb I've always heard is that doubling your wattage (assuming current is about the same) adds about 3 decibels, so going from a 15 to a 40 will allow you to stay clean at a volume level that's enough higher that you'll notice the difference, but it's not a "knock your socks off" difference.

 

However, the difference in loudness & overhead room between tube amps and solid state amps of the same wattage is rather huge, because tube heads run at a much higher current, and also because of the stuff Wyatt was talking about.

[Wyatt]

 

When I use my SoCal 50, I keep it pretty much permanently switched to the low-power (25W) mode. It's plenty enough to be heard over the band. Almost too much, in fact. I've been eyeballing that 15W BlackHeart Handsome Devil for a while now. 100W tube amps are a big part of the reason why Pete Townsend has severe hearing loss and tinnitis these days. Most players will never need that kind of power in their stage rig.

 

 

100W starts to be necessary when playing outdoors. Too much sound lost to open air. Closed back cabs are also a big plus outdoors.

[golias]

 

100W starts to be necessary when playing outdoors. Too much sound lost to open air. Closed back cabs are also a big plus outdoors.

 

 

Agreed. But "most players" will probably never be invited to play at Max Yasgur's Farm.

[Wyatt]

 

Agreed. But "most players" will probably never be invited to play at Max Yasgur's Farm.

 

 

I've seen Motorhead play a mid-sized outdoor arena and a tiny 400 sq. ft. club. They were way too loud for the outdoor arena and didn't turn down for indoors.

[Flintc]

 

They were way too loud for the outdoor arena and didn't turn down for indoors.

The question of how loud is loud enough seems all too often to boil down to "no such thing as too loud." But beyond some decibel level your ear is so saturated you can't distinguish pitch.

 

My common experience is that you're in a band, and one member of that band wants to stand out and be hero. So he claims his equipment doesn't have that perfect sound unless he cranks up to where nobody else can be heard. And the others have little option but to quit or join the arms race. Maybe if you're playing a stadium you need that kind of volume. For most clubs, if the guy over at the bar has to SCREAM his pickup lines at the girl a foot away from him, you are playing too loud.

[Help!I'maRock!]

i played a Mesa Boogie Subway Rocket for years. that thing was PLENTY loud at gigging levels with a heavy handed drummer. stayed clean too. and yes, it was only 20 watts.

[tlbonehead]

 

Agreed. But "most players" will probably never be invited to play at Max Yasgur's Farm.

 

We play lots of outdoor events in the summer. I try to play at about the same volume as I play at in clubs. I use sidefills onstage outdoors and on superwide indoor stages so they are always available if any extra stage volume is needed(for any of the instruments.) I always semi-sidefill my amps too.

[Wyatt]

 

The question of how loud is loud enough seems all too often to boil down to "no such thing as too loud." But beyond some decibel level your ear is so saturated you can't distinguish pitch.

 

 

That was the case with the Motorhead show, it was so loud the sound would distort in you ear and it was all nothing but a big wall of midrange, couldn't even tell what song they were playing.

[tlbonehead]

That was the case with the Motorhead show, it was so loud the sound would distort in you ear and it was all nothing but a big wall of midrange, couldn't even tell what song they were playing.

Yep, you lose any chance of hearing any separation of the different sounds and instruments.

[Wyatt]

 

Yep, you lose any chance of hearing any separation of the different sounds and instruments.

 

 

Imagine sound waves so over powering you can't even recognize the song "Ace of Spades."

[SurveyofSociety]

 

That was the case with the Motorhead show, it was so loud the sound would distort in you ear and it was all nothing but a big wall of midrange, couldn't even tell what song they were playing.

 

 

i saw them back in late 2006, they sounded appaling! they played an old theatre which had favourable acoutics, but it was just a million marshalls turned up to ear drum bursting levels. not good

[cephus]

Not just any 20 watt amp is going to cut it. I have a peavey classic 20 that I love the tone of. It just can't keep up with drums. IF you're playing in church or something, it's OK. But for bar gigs, it can't be heard cleanly over a drummer who is on his third whiskey and coke.

[tlbonehead]

Not just any 20 watt amp is going to cut it. I have a peavey classic 20 that I love the tone of. It just can't keep up with drums. IF you're playing in church or something, it's OK. But for bar gigs, it can't be heard cleanly over a drummer who is on his third whiskey and coke.

Fold a little back through your wedge. Stand closer and in direct line of your speaker. That's simple enough. Oh, and fire a drummer if they, or any band member, isn't interested in the overall package.

[asdfjkl semi]

My current amp is a tiny terror (15 watts). I've gigged with it, with no problems.

[NightGoat]

The other guitarist in our band regular plays through lower wattage amps (15 watts) and he usually has no problem being heard in the mix. Especially if hes got one of his 2x12s with the really efficient speakers.