Members BlueStrat Posted November 8, 2007 Members Share Posted November 8, 2007 Radiohead would have been thrilled if 20% of people who downloaded this from them would have paid anything. And nearly all of each pence paid goes directly to them.With any mass-market item, a closing rate of 38% is great, and I think this is positive news for Radiohead. Don't forget, though, that it still cost them many thousands of dollars to record, mix, master, and promote their record, and they have a staff to maintain as well. It isn't all profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted November 8, 2007 Members Share Posted November 8, 2007 Yes. I can't help but agree 100% with that. You don't tour to support your disc... you make the disc to support your tour. When you're at the level of Radiohead, this might be true. When you're where most of us are, not so much. In fact, it's pretty much the opposite. You end up playing multiple band shows where no one knows you for practically free and hope enough people buy your CDs to make it to the next town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted November 8, 2007 Members Share Posted November 8, 2007 Jeff...Music is basically free now..It's a business card. something to be give as a promo to gain fans for the longhaul. It's a new day..I'm not happy about it but the old way of doing things is in the process of crumbling down and a new model will emerge. . What no one seems to be able to answer is this: what's the point of gaining new fans for the longhaul if ultimately the longhaul contains no income, let alone profit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted November 8, 2007 Members Share Posted November 8, 2007 Yes. I can't help but agree 100% with that. You don't tour to support your disc... you make the disc to support your tour. The good news for fans? Lots of cool tours going on and upcoming as a result... if you have the money for tix. Well I'll tell ya I've toured when Gas was $2 a gallon and with it over 3 and possibly approaching $4 a gallon, plus all the other expenses I'm here to tell you it's going to be tough to do that. I mean, if you have a network of Myspace friends all over the US that will help feed you and let you stay on their couch, it MIGHT be possible to tour and only lose a small amount of money. Oh, yea and some of the gigs better pay as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted November 8, 2007 Members Share Posted November 8, 2007 So much for my hopes of having a cheap pressed cd that will last a bit longer than a burned one.... Go figure,though. These Kunaki CD's look as good as my glass mastered ones. Very pro. And as far as Burned vs. Pressed I just don't think it matters anymore because they are getting reliability equal to pressed ones now so they say with the new disks and new process. Plus, people take the CD home and rip it to their computers and iPods for the most part anyway so even if the CD {censored}ed up, they could burn another if they needed it. The Physical product paradigm is over anyway and at this point is mostly just a means of transportation for the music initially. This is what i'm observing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted November 8, 2007 Members Share Posted November 8, 2007 What no one seems to be able to answer is this: what's the point of gaining new fans for the longhaul if ultimately the longhaul contains no income, let alone profit? That is the rub isn't it Pat? It's almost like, screw it I'll just play these acoustic shows for a couple hundred a night so at least I can make something from my music. This is where i'm at and I'm begining to think maybe I'll just be fortunate to continue making any money at all from music and I should just be grateful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted November 8, 2007 Members Share Posted November 8, 2007 That is the rub isn't it Pat? It's almost like, screw it I'll just play these acoustic shows for a couple hundred a night so at least I can make something from my music. This is where i'm at and I'm begining to think maybe I'll just be fortunate to continue making any money at all from music and I should just be grateful. That's exactly where I am--I started doing the solo thing a couple years ago, and actually make decent dough, play songs I really like, and I'm home at a decent hour. But it isn't fulfilling in the same way a band is. I play with a band, too, but we aren't trying to be anything. I would hate to be a young guy today with a burning desire to make music my life. Looking back at my younger years, at least as a kid of 25, I got to experience the 6 night a week gig and touring for a few years with my rooms paid for, one meal a day provided, and a decent wage of 400-500 a week in 1980 dollars. It isn't for the faint of heart these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted November 8, 2007 Members Share Posted November 8, 2007 That's exactly where I am--I started doing the solo thing a couple years ago, and actually make decent dough, play songs I really like, and I'm home at a decent hour. But it isn't fulfilling in the same way a band is. I play with a band, too, but we aren't trying to be anything. I would hate to be a young guy today with a burning desire to make music my life. Looking back at my younger years, at least as a kid of 25, I got to experience the 6 night a week gig and touring for a few years with my rooms paid for, one meal a day provided, and a decent wage of 400-500 a week in 1980 dollars. It isn't for the faint of heart these days. Amen Brother...I feel fortunate I've done that as well. Now it's about creating our own gigs and still being able to do something musically. I miss the band thing as well and I started playing Guitar in my friend's band a couple months ago just to get to play a few times a month with other people. Not as fulfiling as leading my own band but we do a lot of Originals and they are pretty good. I would say, 80% Original and 20% covers and we play Cover Band bars for Cover Band pay...Pretty cool and pretty fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zygs Malone Posted November 8, 2007 Members Share Posted November 8, 2007 What RadioHead did was the way music has worked for a while now. People who want to pay for it do, everybody else gets it for free. So instead of making some moral judgment about their fans, or prospective fans, not being trustworthy, or being leeches, they just went along with that model. Probably work out good for them financially too. They made some bucks, probably got some future sales, and probably made some new fans. Any kind of copy protection scheme is doomed to failure, and the moment you antagonize your fans, you're screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted November 8, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 8, 2007 It isn't for the faint of heart these days. But you know and I know that it's NEVER been for the faint of heart. Challenges are always there, but the nature of those challenges mutate over the course of time. What we know of classically as the "music industry" was only a viable business model for a little over 60 years. I can't say I'm shocked it changed. There were musicians before labels. There will be afterwards as well. At a technology company I used to work for, we used to say that when Edison was making the lightbulb, some poor guy out there was busy making the PERFECT gas lamp. The secret is not to be the gas lamp guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted November 8, 2007 Members Share Posted November 8, 2007 What RadioHead did was the way music has worked for a while now. People who want to pay for it do, everybody else gets it for free. So instead of making some moral judgment about their fans, or prospective fans, not being trustworthy, or being leeches, they just went along with that model. Probably work out good for them financially too. They made some bucks, probably got some future sales, and probably made some new fans. Any kind of copy protection scheme is doomed to failure, and the moment you antagonize your fans, you're screwed. So how do unknown bands pay for making decent recordings and still make any money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chu2 Posted November 8, 2007 Members Share Posted November 8, 2007 So how do unknown bands pay for making decent recordings and still make any money? Lots and lots of gigging. Get your name out at free gigs, and work up to paid ones. Get a day job to help buy other equipment. Buy a good USB mic, download Audacity, cut a basic demo with that. Make some business cards and CD liner notes on your home PC. Make a band myspace/facebook/soundclick. Advertise through your friends. Get a little more money, rent out a studio after practicing your list of songs for your demo until you get them down pat so as to keep studio time to a minimum because of flubs. Send out the demo, etc, etc. The digital revolution is really making it easier for bands to get their name out, not harder. It's just getting harder to make it "big" in the music business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chu2 Posted November 8, 2007 Members Share Posted November 8, 2007 These Kunaki CD's look as good as my glass mastered ones. Very pro. And as far as Burned vs. Pressed I just don't think it matters anymore because they are getting reliability equal to pressed ones now so they say with the new disks and new process. The thing being, even a permanently burned CD isn't really permanent, as I'm sure you know...All those photo-reactive molecules that change color. Eventually, those fade. My tunes aren't going to last for eternity...But...that's what vinyl's for! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members doug osborne Posted November 8, 2007 Members Share Posted November 8, 2007 So how do unknown bands pay for making decent recordings and still make any money? Day jobs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted November 8, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 8, 2007 Day jobs Same as it ever was... same as it ever was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ShakaCthulu Posted November 9, 2007 Members Share Posted November 9, 2007 I would say that this metric in itself isn't too much of an indication of anything because we don't know what percentage of the people who downloaded the record for free would have bought it anyway, had they never had the option to get it for free. Ah, but they would've had the opportunity to download it for free, and probably at a better rate than 160 kpbs. All it would've taken is for one person to upload it to a torrent or p2p network. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted November 9, 2007 Members Share Posted November 9, 2007 I finished my CD earlier this year and made copies even though I knew they would mostly be used as business cards. Yes, I have sold a few but I would be lying to you if I said I made them knowing they would be anything but a business card. At live shows I can actually sell them but I would have to be playing the Garden every night to feed the kids. Music has become disposable. Its background music to most. When was the last time you (a musician) actually sat down and listened to a record in its entirety? If we`re not, how can we expect the average music fan? If it were not for my iPod, I`m not sure how much music I would actually be listening to. Sad actually... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chetwesley Posted November 9, 2007 Members Share Posted November 9, 2007 Because Radiohead already has a huge following and because this "stunt" (as the press perceives it) will be advertised FREE by articles in Spin, Rolling Stone, The Wire, and every other magazine you can think of, I am positive that Radiohead is coming out financially ahead of what they would have if they had a major label "behind them" taking 95% of each album sold. As for touring, the only way I can see to tour now is to have at least a good niche crowd who will be willing to come see you, as well as lots of varied merch to sell. If you can make it yourself and have unique packaging, you will come out way ahead of having someone else manufacture it. Without that income, it is very hard to support the expenses of living and driving. I was in a band and when we toured we made sure to have special things that were unique to the tour, new t-shirt designs, tour only CD with special packaging... plus there was only two people to support. Other bands had to really struggle, while we got on ok because we did those things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted November 9, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 9, 2007 When was the last time you (a musician) actually sat down and listened to a record in its entirety? Two days ago. Listened to Court and Spark on Wednesday (Joni Mitchell's 64th birthday) all the way through for the umpteen millionth time. Of course, that was a record from 1974, when they knew how to do it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted November 9, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 9, 2007 If you can make it yourself and have unique packaging, you will come out way ahead of having someone else manufacture it. What, like, knit sweaters with my logo on it? :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chetwesley Posted November 9, 2007 Members Share Posted November 9, 2007 What, like, knit sweaters with my logo on it? :lol: That would have worked great for us, but I guess not for everyone... but knitting is too time consuming. Learn how to screen print. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted November 10, 2007 Members Share Posted November 10, 2007 Lots and lots of gigging. Get your name out at free gigs, and work up to paid ones. Get a day job to help buy other equipment. Buy a good USB mic, download Audacity, cut a basic demo with that. Make some business cards and CD liner notes on your home PC. Make a band myspace/facebook/soundclick. Advertise through your friends. Get a little more money, rent out a studio after practicing your list of songs for your demo until you get them down pat so as to keep studio time to a minimum because of flubs. Send out the demo, etc, etc.The digital revolution is really making it easier for bands to get their name out, not harder. It's just getting harder to make it "big" in the music business. No offense, but the vast majority of home recordings sound like ass. And no matter how much gear they seem to have it still sounds like ass. And an asslike recording converted to MP3 sounds like huge ass. There are exceptions, of course, but the problem is too many people think they're audio engineers and producers. They aren't. And I differentiate between getting your name out and making it available. Anyone can do the latter; few can do the former. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted November 10, 2007 Members Share Posted November 10, 2007 Two days ago. Listened to Court and Spark on Wednesday (Joni Mitchell's 64th birthday) all the way through for the umpteen millionth time. Of course, that was a record from 1974, when they knew how to do it right. + 1000000000000000000 I listen to lots of stuff from the 70s and the production quality is for the most part miles above what's being put out now. The problem is, DIYs can't go buy giant analog 24 track Fostex 2" tape recorders, and all the tube accessories that go with them. And even those albums, when converted to MP3, sound like ass in comparison to the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cry Logic Posted November 10, 2007 Members Share Posted November 10, 2007 No offense, but the vast majority of home recordings sound like ass. And no matter how much gear they seem to have it still sounds like ass. As has been mentioned many times recently in this forum,the vast majority of listeners don't seem to care... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chu2 Posted November 10, 2007 Members Share Posted November 10, 2007 As has been mentioned many times recently in this forum, the vast majority of listeners don't seem to care... Save up the cash from anything you make of those recordings, and go into the studio. . . Point # later on my agenda for an upcoming band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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