Carvin CT4T on order

[Help!I'maRock!]

 

That red one sold three months ago. This one is all mahogany in turquoise. I'd prefer red, but the color is the least important thing to me. Hopefully I'll have an NGD post soon!

 

 

sweet. hope you like it. is it a bolt on? because CE's have maple necks, not mahogany.

[scolfax]

 

sweet. hope you like it. is it a bolt on? because CE's have maple necks, not mahogany.

 

 

Yeah, it's a bolt-on maple neck. My friend has one and I like it a lot. I was really looking forward to some of those Carvin features, like the stainless-steel frets and ebony fretboard, but not a huge loss.

[Flintc]

What an educational thread this has been. Sounds like Carvin's backlog is double to triple what some suit thinks customers will be willing to tolerate. To neutralize this problem, Carvin seems to be doing two things:

 

1) Making deliverery promises they know perfectly well they have no chance of meeting, and then stringing customers a long in the hopes they'll just keep waiting. (Toss a frog into hot water, it leaps out instantly. Toss it into room temperature water and gradually heat the water, and the frog will stay put until it dies. Carvin thinks their customers are frogs.)

 

2) Pushing the production department HARD to increase production, causing them to drop nonessential tasks like keeping records, tracking individual orders, meeting quality control standards, and other time-wasters.

 

I think Carvin is currently suffering through what is euphemistically called "budget issues" - they've boosted their advertising, designed a bunch of new models, upgraded their website, added to their list of options, and removed negative feedback from their blogs. This all costs money, which is therefore NOT available to be spent on such things as more CNC machines, more employees, better training, deeper inventory, larger facilities, etc.

 

So the best Carvin buying strategy seems to be, fill out their online build form, pay for it, ignore any completion date estimates, and forget about it until either the instrument arrives or you die of old age. If it's not what you ordered, send it back immediately (about a 60% chance), otherwise enjoy a wonderful instrument (40%).

[steve_man]

 

What an educational thread this has been. Sounds like Carvin's backlog is double to triple what some suit thinks customers will be willing to tolerate. To neutralize this problem, Carvin seems to be doing two things: 1) Making deliverery promises they know perfectly well they have no chance of meeting, and then stringing customers a long in the hopes they'll just keep waiting. (Toss a frog into hot water, it leaps out instantly. Toss it into room temperature water and gradually heat the water, and the frog will stay put until it dies. Carvin thinks their customers are frogs.) 2) Pushing the production department HARD to increase production, causing them to drop nonessential tasks like keeping records, tracking individual orders, meeting quality control standards, and other time-wasters. I think Carvin is currently suffering through what is euphemistically called "budget issues" - they've boosted their advertising, designed a bunch of new models, upgraded their website, added to their list of options, and removed negative feedback from their blogs. This all costs money, which is therefore NOT available to be spent on such things as more CNC machines, more employees, better training, deeper inventory, larger facilities, etc. So the best Carvin buying strategy seems to be, fill out their online build form, pay for it, ignore any completion date estimates, and forget about it until either the instrument arrives or you die of old age. If it's not what you ordered, send it back immediately (about a 60% chance), otherwise enjoy a wonderful instrument (40%).

 

 

Yup, sounds about right. But as long as customers keep sending them orders and money...they'll just keep doing it.

[RaVenCAD]

So the best Carvin buying strategy seems to be, fill out their online build form, pay for it , ignore any completion date estimates, and forget about it until either the instrument arrives or you die of old age. If it's not what you ordered, send it back immediately (about a 60% chance), otherwise enjoy a wonderful instrument (40%).

 

Carvin only rquires a 10% deposit to start a guitar. Paying for it in full is the choice/mistake you make on your own. Scolfax didn't order over the phone, he used the website, which was beyond dumb.. If he'd done a little research first, his entire Carvin experience could have been a lot better. Use the website to design it, but for the love of God, call and talk to a human when you are ready to order.. The website was quoting X weeks to compelte, but the phone reps were giving another number. Who's fault is it that they would have been closer to what the phone reps were saying? Carvin's for being slammed with orders for new models? The customer's for not having the common sense to pick up a phone? I'm not saying they're perfect, cuz they're not. But a little effort and understanding on the part of the customer goes a long way.

 

Also, I'd say your numbers on satisfaction are completely false.. I know far more happy Carvin owners than haters. Sure, every company has haters, but the VAST majority of people I've talked to that own a Carvin feel the same way I do about them. We have a couple people around here that differ, but I think some of them have an agenda and make it a point to {censored} up every Carvin thread they see. I'm just a customer that's extremely happy with the product and service they gave me. I have no interest in getting them new customers, but if someone asks, I'm going to give an honest, glowing opinion of them because I honestly believe it's the best deal going today for a semi-custom American made guitar. Are they right for you? That's totally your call, but I know they're right for me..

[scolfax]

Paying for it in full is the choice/mistake you make on your own. Scolfax didn't order over the phone, he used the website, which was beyond dumb.. If he'd done a little research first, his entire Carvin experience could have been a lot better. Use the website to design it, but for the love of God, call and talk to a human when you are ready to order.. The website was quoting X weeks to compelte, but the phone reps were giving another number. Who's fault is it that they would have been closer to what the phone reps were saying? Carvin's for being slammed with orders for new models? The customer's for not having the common sense to pick up a phone? I'm not saying they're perfect, cuz they're not. But a little effort and understanding on the part of the customer goes a long way.

 

Inane.

[GCDEF]

Inane.

 

I agree. If Carvin's going to offer ordering through the website, it's on them to make sure it works properly. It's not up to the user to automatically assume that the website is wonky and to use the phone instead. Also, if they're going to quote shipping times on the website, it's up to them to keep the site accurate. It shouldn't be up to the user to assume the website is inaccurate or out of date. Little things mean a lot when it comes to service.

[RaVenCAD]

Reading the Carvin forum and reading HC, told me that calling was the best plan. Why? Because not all the options are listed on the shopping cart, plus it locks you in with a specific salesman instead of hanging you out in limbo with no one specific to ask questions of. Am I the only one that researches a company just a bit before entering into a 2 month build with them for a $1000+ item? Has common sense been completely abandoned?

[scolfax]

 

Reading the Carvin forum and reading HC, told me that calling was the best plan. Why? Because not all the options are listed on the shopping cart, plus it locks you in with a specific salesman instead of hanging you out in limbo with no one specific to ask questions of. Am I the only one that researches a company just a bit before entering into a 2 month build with them for a $1000+ item? Has common sense been completely abandoned?

 

 

You may be hurting Carvin more than you think you're helping them...

[GCDEF]

Reading the Carvin forum and reading HC, told me that calling was the best plan. Why? Because not all the options are listed on the shopping cart, plus it locks you in with a specific salesman instead of hanging you out in limbo with no one specific to ask questions of. Am I the only one that researches a company just a bit before entering into a 2 month build with them for a $1000+ item? Has common sense been completely abandoned?

 

I'm with you that on something as expensive and as important as a custom order guitar, I wouldn't dream of ordering it over the web. I'd talk to somebody, have them read it all back and send it in writing, but that's me, and you apparently. Not everybody's like that though. I'm always puzzled when people say they've send emails for two weeks without a response, yet for whatever reason, it doesn't occur to them to just pick up the phone.

 

Once more.

 

To peaceful coexistence in Carvin threads.

[RaVenCAD]

 

You may be hurting Carvin more than you think you're helping them...

 

 

I'm not trying to sell Carvin to anyone. I simply want to see a good company get a fair shake. I won't deny they've got problems, but I think the good outshines the bad.

 

GC, we are going to peacefully co-exist from now on. No point acting like children over something as trivial as personal opinion. I took ya off ignore, and ya ain't going back.

[Help!I'maRock!]

 

You may be hurting Carvin more than you think you're helping them...

 

 

how's that PRS treating you?

[tone7426]

waiting sucks but the wait time for a Carvin really isn't that long when compared to other high end USA guitars. delivery time on an American BC Rich is around 1 year, a Rickenbacker is now up to 2 years on some models and G&L is now saying 12 to 16 weeks.

 

IMO they are very fine guitars that are well worth the wait.

[scolfax]

 

how's that PRS treating you?

 

 

I like it a lot. It plays great, and feels really solid. The bridge pickup is a little hotter than I usually need, so that might get replaced. FWIW, I don't think it looks as nice as my Carvin would have been.

 

I'm really happy to see GC and RC bury the hatchet!

 

Edit: When I say "looks", I mean how pretty it is - not how good of a guitar it is. The PRS is great, and I would buy one again in a heartbeat!

[Flintc]

 

I'm with you that on something as expensive and as important as a custom order guitar, I wouldn't dream of ordering it over the web. I'd talk to somebody, have them read it all back and send it in writing, but that's me, and you apparently. Not everybody's like that though.

I admit I'm not like that, for the very reasons you explained so eloquently here. But I'll explain a bit more and hopefully avoid some confusion.

 

IF instead of an a la carte system like Carvin, I was talking to a private luthier, who would be building to my personal design, of course I'd have many long discussions. But Carvin's guitars aren't "custom" in that respect, they're like a Chinese menu. You can have the cook mix and match anything he makes, but you can't add something new to the menu. If I demanded an 11-piece paduak and wenge neck, Carvin isn't going to even consider it, much less discuss with me how these woods interact in a guitar neck.

 

And so the individual you're talking to isn't the builder, he's an order-taker. But the online guitar-building system is something that lets you review every modifiable detail as long as you want before you make the order. I agree an email back to you confirming the order and listing every selected feature would be pretty important. But you don't need to have a salesman acting as intermediary for you.

 

If Carvin's site lets me build a guitar, that's what I'll use it for, as intended. If they publish a delivery date, that's the date they should honor. There's nothing wrong with the web interface UNLESS Carvin doesn't bother to honor orders placed through it. In which case, it is not my fault. Nor am I dumb.

[GCDEF]

I don't remember the exact details about it now, but a year or two ago I was banging around on their website and found quite a few bugs in their ordering system. I was able to generate orders with incomplete specs, mutually exclusive specs and things I didn't ask for. I posted a message about it on their forum. It was summarily locked then deleted within a day or so. When I went back a month later, all the bugs were still there. They've redesigned it now and I haven't tried to trick it again, but it was pretty easy to mess up your online order a while back.

[scolfax]

 

...it is SUPPOSED to be the preferred method. As it should be - it gives them a recorded order in every detail, no harried human to misunderstand and screw it up.

 

 

This is exactly why I ordered it online. I triple-checked every option.

[cerebrix]

when i ordered my carvin i did it in the santa ana store.

 

Oscar is AWESOME. I had been asking for my ghost burst finish for a year. Oscar made it happen.

 

When I placed my order, i put down 400 bucks, and paid the remaining 1300 when the guitar came in.

 

if you guys ever have questions about stuff, i suggest calling the santa ana store. If Oscar isnt there, ask for Chris.

[Flintc]

 

They've redesigned it now and I haven't tried to trick it again, but it was pretty easy to mess up your online order a while back.

Yeah, about a year ago that bothered me as well. For what it's worth, the new ordering system is much better. There's a default selection for every option, so you can't leave anything incomplete. And the order form is broken into multiple pages as a state-machine, meaning which page you get next depends on what you selected previously, so you can't select mutually exclusive options. If you go back to a prior page and change your selection, the next pages can be different depending.

 

I doubt your complaint caused this change, but it wouldn't surprise me if after an unacceptably high number of rejected instruments that "aren't what I ordered", Carvin went back to their ordering system and started noticing that it wasn't idiot-proof.

 

In fact, I filled out the form a little over a year ago for a custom bass, and a few times I was completely baffled trying to avoid at least one mutually-exclusive combination, and also trying to avoid getting something I did NOT want in order to get what I DID want (invalid interdependencies). And I admit this was the key reason why I ended up not ordering a Carvin bass. I couldn't be sure what I would get.

 

Hopefully, this new system has resolved those issues. I haven't tried every possible build, but haven't hit any confusion so far...

[rock-lobster]

GC, we are going to peacefully co-exist from now on. No point acting like children over something as trivial as personal opinion. I took ya off ignore, and ya ain't going back.

 

i give it two weeks.

[GCDEF]

i give it two weeks.

 

Nah, I think everything's cool.

[csm]

i give it two weeks.

 

Nahhhh --- when RVCD says that, he means it. Living proof, here.