how much wah is too much wah

[chrisebrooks06]

first off im really hoping this wont turn into a 'hate thread' but i have a few questions i would like to ask as a guitarist still learning and asking questions i need to ask.

 

first off, a little background on me, i have been playing around the 11 year mark now and im quite happy with where im at as a guitarist, as most of you guys know im a huge metallica fan and i know the amount of dislike for them in particular so hopefully this will be a nice discussion......fingers crossed

 

kirk has been my favourite guitarist and this is where my question lies :

 

1: how much wah is too much wah?

 

i mean does his playing and use of wah suit the arrangements, or does he rely on the use of his wah in the majority of arrangements :

 

A: Through lack of theory and how and when to apply it?

B: Confidence to hide bad playing technique

C: Or in theory ' it works'

 

 

the reason i ask is because basically i want to learn more about him as a player and also when i started i was guilty of hiding my bad playing behind excessive wah and effects etc but as i developed i have eased off.

 

like i said im a huge fan but its a little difficult asking in forums as the opinions are usually negative but like i said i am really keen to explore his playing and thought i would ask your guys opionion

 

thanks guys

chris

(hope i dont get 'chased' off the board lol)

[metalmanic]

It's all personal opinion. I'm a big Metallica fan (not a Hammet fan though), and I think the wah is cool in certain solo's like "Wherever I May Roam". Kirk has horrible vibrato tho, so I think the wah is how he gets his articulation in there.

[chrisebrooks06]

 

It's all personal opinion. I'm a big Metallica fan (not a Hammet fan though), and I think the wah is cool in certain solo's like "Wherever I May Roam". Kirk has horrible vibrato tho, so I think the wah is how he gets his articulation in there.

 

 

that is an interesting point i heard from other sources that his vibrato is too fast, i will never be as good as him no way, wherever i may roam is a great example of his wah use:thu:

[yzfou]

 

that is an interesting point i heard from other sources that his vibrato is too fast, i will never be as good as him no way, wherever i may roam is a great example of his wah use:thu:

 

 

the solo on eye of the beholder is another example of good wah use. It's true that Kirk tends to overuse the wah but it never really bothered me.

 

wah is to Kirk what pinch harmonics are to Zakk I guess.

[chrisebrooks06]

 

the solo on eye of the beholder is another example of good wah use. It's true that Kirk tends to overuse the wah but it never really bothered me. wah is to Kirk what pinch harmonics are to Zakk I guess.

 

 

i guess, it doesnt annoy me as such, i was just wondering why it is used in almost all of his solos, some of his non wah solos have sounded better to me i.e unforgiven comes to mind, master of puppets 2nd solo im sure has no wah or very little use of it

[211dave112]

i think it's when you rely on it. If you're finding it hard to do a good solo so throw some wah on to add interest then its not a good thing.

[trill]

A wah pedal controls a parameter of your sound (sweeping the peak response of a filter up or down in frequency). Using a wah on every (or nearly every) solo, in the same way, would be like picking every note at the same volume, or using the same turnaround for every blues song, or sliding into every note that starts a phrase.

 

To answer your question, I think it's possible to use wah A LOT and still keep things unpredictable, and if you like wah A LOT, maybe that's what you should do. But an important part of playing interesting music is challenging yourself to try new things, and if you find yourself doing the same things with any pedal (or any tool for phrasing/tone-shaping), perhaps it's best to set it aside and try something new.

[jrockbridge]

If it starts to seem like bad porno music, you're using too much wah!

[GibsonQC]

 

It's all personal opinion. I'm a big Metallica fan (not a Hammet fan though), and I think the wah is cool in certain solo's like "Wherever I May Roam". Kirk has horrible vibrato tho, so I think the wah is how he gets his articulation in there.

 

 

KH is the first player that came to mind when thinking of using "too much wah." But, in his case, I think it's "too much" simply because it's used to cover up that quick vibrato and repititous use of the pentatonic scale. Don't get me wrong--I like Metallica, but I prefer Hetfield's tasty playing & vibrato to Hammett's epileptic frenzy.

 

To answer the initial question, I think when it's used to "flavor" the guitar, rather than cover up some sort of inadequacy, then it can be used often. Personally, I don't use it much (if at all), but I think some guitarists use it to great effect. Slash comes to mind on Sweet Child. Fantastic use of Wah...Voodoo Child puts the Wah through the paces, but it never sounds "unnatural." I can't imagine that tune without the wah...

[snaredrum]

the solo on eye of the beholder is another example of good wah use. It's true that Kirk tends to overuse the wah but it never really bothered me. wah is to Kirk what pinch harmonics are to Zakk I guess.

 

:thu:

 

well said

[Hanglow]

Listen to Danny Bryants Redeye Band - Black and White - for the definitive album of "too much wah"

[johanneswiberg]

I just have to ask - why is Kirk your favorite player? To each his own, whatever floats your boat and all that, I'm just curious. He's better than me for sure, and he does have some nice moves but there are so many guitarists out there who can do what he does, can do it better, and can do so much more (even several on this board)... why did you pick him?

[yzfou]

 

I just have to ask - why is Kirk your favorite player? To each his own, whatever floats your boat and all that, I'm just curious. He's better than me for sure, and he does have some nice moves but there are so many guitarists out there who can do what he does, can do it better, and can do so much more (even several on this board)... why did you pick him?

 

 

you didn't ask me, but if you did I would tell you that my favorite guitar player is the one that moves me the most, doesn't really have anything to do with technical skills.

 

it's probably the same for him.

[StompBoxLover]

 

If it starts to seem like bad porno music, you're using too much wah!

 

 

unless you're going for that, of course.

[rock-lobster]

this much: WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHWAHWAHWAHWAHWAAAAAAAAAAAHWAAAAAAAAHWAHWAHWAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.

 

anything more than that and you're just overdoing it.

[johanneswiberg]

 

you didn't ask me, but if you did I would tell you that my favorite guitar player is the one that moves me the most, doesn't really have anything to do with technical skills. it's probably the same for him.

 

 

Bur of course. That's why I didn't specify technical skills. By saying that other players can do what he does, I meant playing, and the playing is what moves the listener, right? Of course there's subjectivity to it, and I didn't say it's impossible to prefer Kirk to other players, I'm just asking. Didn't mention notes per second or anything.

[rog951]

Not sure exactly how much is too much wah, but Kirk Hammet got there by about the 3rd song of the 1st album!

 

Actually, I am a Metallica fan, just not to the degree of knowing exactly who played which parts, etc. So, I'm kinda hesitant to diss Kirk too much, since, for all I know, he may share in writing a lot of the riffing and rhythm stuff that I do like.

 

However, I generally don't care for a lot of the solos for some reason, and my understanding is that Kirk plays most, if not all, of 'em. Hard to say why I find them objectionable but I don't think it's the wah...if anything, the wah might actually save a few solos for me. I think it comes down to note choice for me ultimately...I just hear different stuff than Kirk does; nothing against him or any of his fans. Hell, he's been way more successful than me so he's probably "righter" than me anyway!

 

Anyway, I say just wah all you want!

[Wyatt]

It's not that I think Kirk doesn't know how to use a wah or uses it poorly, my only problem is he uses one so often, it's like his signature novelty. The problem with having a signature sound is everything starts to blur together, I probably couldn't pick out one solo from another if that's one someone played me. Really there isn't a solo his ever done that had to have wah, they would have all stood on their own without it.

 

There used to be a rule of thumb for gigging players, use a wah for no more than 2 songs a set, or it becomes a gimmick. This can also be applied to other overt effects, like a Leslie, ring mod, etc.

[yzfou]

 

Bur of course. That's why I didn't specify technical skills. By saying that other players can do what he does, I meant playing, and the playing is what moves the listener, right? Of course there's subjectivity to it, and I didn't say it's impossible to prefer Kirk to other players, I'm just asking. Didn't mention notes per second or anything.

 

 

I understand what you're saying. I still like Kirk's playing and it's probably because Metallica is the reason I started playing guitar. So maybe I would like to think that he is better than he really is. He had his moments and did some great solos and some not so great solos over the years.

[johanneswiberg]

 

I understand what you're saying. I still like Kirk's playing and it's probably because Metallica is the reason I started playing guitar. So maybe I would like to think that he is better than he really is. He had his moments and did some great solos and some not so great solos over the years.

 

 

Naturally, the setting has a lot to do with it. Before I started listening around, Deep Purple was my one and only favorite band, and I was sure no one else could come even close to the speed of Ritchie Blackmore. Then Steve Morse joined and I was convinced he was the fastest and best player in the world. Now I'm older and wiser (?) and not only is speed far from my main preference in a player, I also realize that there are so many incredibly good players out there that picking a no. 1 is impossible. You have to go by personal favorite solos or gimmicks or something (although this doesn't convince me Kirk is the way to go either). That's probably why a lot of people thinks Lars Ulrich is the world's greatest drummer (and yes, they do, I've met a lot of kids and grownups that think exactly that).

[germs]

It's too much wah when you start to notice it in your OWN songs. As in, "Damn, I to the wah pedal in every other song - I gotta try something else."

 

I think Kirk's already admitted to using the wah as a way to cover up a lack of ability...but who among us isn't guilty of that? You're only born with a certain amount of ability to maximize, I think - so there comes a point where you're phrasing the best you can and you just need a little more oomph. That's where the wah comes into play.

 

But yes, there is an entire class of players who just cover up a complete lack of playing ability by the over-use of effects...

[chrisebrooks06]

I just have to ask - why is Kirk your favorite player? To each his own, whatever floats your boat and all that, I'm just curious. He's better than me for sure, and he does have some nice moves but there are so many guitarists out there who can do what he does, can do it better, and can do so much more (even several on this board)... why did you pick him?

 

i guess metallica like others have said are just my all time favourites, umm kirk in particular isnt my favourite, im more moved by hetfields playing but i guess from a young age listening to puppets, rtl etc and .and justice for all solo just amazes me and played live is just great so i guess thats why i appreciate kirks playing so much, i love his use of wah but im keen to research why he uses he wah so much so i can use it in my playing, i dont wanna emulate just nick a few of his ideas lol.

 

thats basically it.........

[blue_velvet]

It's never enough.

 

The answer is none more...none more wah.

[sleepeatplay]

It's not that I think Kirk doesn't know how to use a wah or uses it poorly, my only problem is he uses one so often, it's like his signature novelty. The problem with having a signature sound is everything starts to blur together, I probably couldn't pick out one solo from another if that's one someone played me. Really there isn't a solo his ever done that had to have wah, they would have all stood on their own without it. There used to be a rule of thumb for gigging players, use a wah for no more than 2 songs a set, or it becomes a gimmick. This can also be applied to other overt effects, like a Leslie, ring mod, etc.

Chris, this is good information here. I have effects, but I try not to abuse them. Effects should enhance your sound, not "be" your sound. Randy Rhoads was a master of that IMO. BTW, I tried e-mailing you like three times but myspace dumped the e-mail.. I got a compressor pedal. First time user. More toys.

[dacat]

I only play for my cat, so my abuse of the budda wah is forgiven. He has not complained....

 

I play Voodoo Child a lot, and Goin Down. Wah songs I think. I play with the wah on most all the blues songs sometimes. If I get bored with it, I can it for however long. I think Kirk is just doing it a lot cause he likes it.