The Difference Of Learning By Ear

[Rudolf von Hagenwil]

My cat digs Schoenberg. And Alban Berg. I put him on the piano keys the other day, and he played the whole redaction of WOZZECK. Pinch his tail and he'll do the arias as well.

 

 

This cat has extraordinary musical talent, lightyears away from what's written in any pop song book.

 

Now go and listen to your cat and transcibe what she dictates to you and any difficulties with melodies will disappear

[The Chosen Few]

 

About what else then personal experience should one talk?

 

 

Well to go back I apologize for the sense of "ass'ness" for that was not my intention.

I wanted to state my mind's thought on the situation as a topic of discussion , not to harm your individuality. So my bad !

 

About the quote :

I'll give a short example , for shedding light on it might open up other things that are of topic.

Let's say someone starts a thread called " I need to learn a C maj Chord ". There's two ways I can respond to it.

One : Trying to help the person :

I would say, hey theres tons of ways to learn a C maj chord, here is how I play it. Good Luck

Two: Trying to promote my own talents : Yeah I know tons of chords, I've got tons of ways to play C maj. People even say I am great at playing C maj. Cheers

Does anyone see a difference in that. The person asking the question learnt what a C maj chord is and knowledge towards higher learning from comment one. From comment two he learnt nothing of his intial question and only gained insight on sowething he is not interested in.

Comment two has no reality in community , only in one self and the art of meaningless conversation

Hope that helps what I was trying to portray

[Rudolf von Hagenwil]

 

Well to go back I apologize for the sense of "ass'ness" for that was not my intention. I wanted to state my mind's thought on the situation as a topic of discussion , not to harm your individuality. So my bad ! About the quote : I'll give a short example , for shedding light on it might open up other things that are of topic. Let's say someone starts a thread called " I need to learn a C maj Chord ". There's two ways I can respond to it. One : Trying to help the person : I would say, hey theres tons of ways to learn a C maj chord, here is how I play it. Good Luck Two: Trying to promote my own talents : Yeah I know tons of chords, I've got tons of ways to play C maj. People even say I am great at playing C maj. Cheers Does anyone see a difference in that. The person asking the question learnt what a C maj chord is and knowledge towards higher learning from comment one. From comment two he learnt nothing of his intial question and only gained insight on sowething he is not interested in. Comment two has no reality in community , only in one self and the art of meaningless conversation Hope that helps what I was trying to portray

 

 

No, it does not help.

 

A question like: "I need to learn a C maj Chord" doesn't make much sense in the first place, except you are happy with the answer: "A Cmaj chord is composited of at least one C, one E and one G note.

[The Chosen Few]

No, it does not help. A question like: "I need to learn a C maj Chord" doesn't make much sense in the first place, except you are happy with the answer: "A Cmaj chord is composited of at least one C, one E and one G note.

 

Angelo, you seem like a pretty relaxed guy.

I wasn't asking about a Cmaj chord, it was just an example.

See you on the threads

[Lee Knight]

 

Well to go back I apologize for the sense of "ass'ness" for that was not my intention. I wanted to state my mind's thought on the situation as a topic of discussion , not to harm your individuality. So my bad ! About the quote : I'll give a short example , for shedding light on it might open up other things that are of topic. Let's say someone starts a thread called " I need to learn a C maj Chord ". There's two ways I can respond to it. One : Trying to help the person : I would say, hey theres tons of ways to learn a C maj chord, here is how I play it. Good Luck Two: Trying to promote my own talents : Yeah I know tons of chords, I've got tons of ways to play C maj. People even say I am great at playing C maj. Cheers Does anyone see a difference in that. The person asking the question learnt what a C maj chord is and knowledge towards higher learning from comment one. From comment two he learnt nothing of his intial question and only gained insight on sowething he is not interested in. Comment two has no reality in community , only in one self and the art of meaningless conversation Hope that helps what I was trying to portray

 

 

The thing about a thread... someone may post a question, but soon enough the thread takes on a life beyond just that initial question. Someone responding with their personal experience, and seemingly unrelated answer, is more helpful than you might think. Maybe not to you... but to all the others that own the thread along with you.

 

Be prepared that your baby, this thread, will grow to be everybody's baby soon enough. I happened to enjoy the response you took offense to. Right there is enough reason for you to let it go.

[amarule]

What skill do you think develops your ear faster, learning 1 song back to front and listening to it 100 times or listening to 100 different songs and trying to play along the best you can ? Thanks

 

Neither. Learn to read music, and you can play any song you want. Your ears and eyes will coordinate, and your training will be proper and complete.

[Cry Logic]

 

I don't mean to be the Devil's Advocate here,

but you will will anyway yeah?

but why do people on this forum think it's here to talk about themselves ?

What else is life about but experience filtered through self?

Your responce has no diction on this thread in the slightest on why I asked my question.

Diction?

Diction is about style...not content... (and "response is spelled with an S not a c...)

Do me a favour and just worry about keeping your chops up, I'm sure you could use it.And for people who read, we are here to help each other with support. Note the name called " Community " Forum. It's to help each other and communicate.

So why aren't you practising what you preach? Super 8 was communicating in his own way.. It's you who is

going against the community spirit....

What is the nature behind stating how good of a musician you are ? I assure you if any of us where any good we wouldn't spend the time bragging about it on a forum cheers

I didn't see it as "bragging. Just Super 8

discussing the topic through the filter of his own life experience.

I am amazed you took offence to his post. It seemed quite helpful to me....

[Cry Logic]

 

Neither. Learn to read music, and you can play any song you want. Your ears and eyes will coordinate, and your training will be proper and complete.

 

Except when you are called on to improvise.

In which case no amount of reading skill will help....

[jerrye]

I say, listening to 100 different songs and trying to play along the best you can

 

I think the first alternative makes the results of second choice much more fruitful. I took lessons from day one. After MelBay book one, my teacher said buy an easy guitar book of pop songs. I did. He chose one song per week, based in part, on how many new chords were introduced. I learned a song per week.

 

But within a year, I joined my first band. I probably knew twenty songs from books, I guess. Here's my first time to learn by ear: The lead guitarist in the band sat down with me and he/we learned "Jessie's Girl" by ear. I remember that for each of the 5 chords in the intro, all I heard was the one note. I can't remember if I heard the root or the 5. He was good at it, and taught me a lot.

 

Anyway, then I would go through sessions of listening to the radio and trying to play most every song. Sometimes, I'd record those songs and learn 'em in more detail. I'd do this for hours, rather than go outside and deal with the neighborhood bully. I think this process involves more learning by ear amd therefore develops the ear more so.

 

Playing the same song 100 times -- I suppose that woud develop an ear for subleties. The more I hear a song, the more subleties I detect. For my taste, developing an ear for many forests is more important that developing my ear for many trees in a few forests.

[The Chosen Few]

 

I say, listening to 100 different songs and trying to play along the best you can I think the first alternative makes the results of second choice much more fruitful. I took lessons from day one. After MelBay book one, my teacher said buy an easy guitar book of pop songs. I did. He chose one song per week, based in part, on how many new chords were introduced. I learned a song per week. But within a year, I joined my first band. I probably knew twenty songs from books, I guess. Here's my first time to learn by ear: The lead guitarist in the band sat down with me and he/we learned "Jessie's Girl" by ear. I remember that for each of the 5 chords in the intro, all I heard was the one note. I can't remember if I heard the root or the 5. He was good at it, and taught me a lot. Anyway, then I would go through sessions of listening to the radio and trying to play most every song. Sometimes, I'd record those songs and learn 'em in more detail. I'd do this for hours, rather than go outside and deal with the neighborhood bully. I think this process involves more learning by ear amd therefore develops the ear more so. Playing the same song 100 times -- I suppose that woud develop an ear for subleties. The more I hear a song, the more subleties I detect. For my taste, developing an ear for many forests is more important that developing my ear for many trees in a few forests.

 

 

Wicked !!!

Thank You for your insight !

[Super 8]

 

One : Trying to help the person : I would say, hey theres tons of ways to learn a C maj chord, here is how I play it. Good Luck Two: Trying to promote my own talents : Yeah I know tons of chords, I've got tons of ways to play C maj. People even say I am great at playing C maj. Cheers

 

 

I'm sorry you got the wrong impression. I was not trying to brag or promote my talents. I may be a lot of things, but unless my self-perceptions are totally screwed, I am not a braggart.

 

I could teach you a Cmaj chord. That's simple. Teaching someone how to interpret music by ear is not simple. And honestly, I don't know if it can be taught. I think you have an innate ability to do this. As I said earlier, (and not to sound like a show-off), I can do this, and I'm pretty good at it. I mentioned it mainly because it came as a bit of a surprise to me that not everyone could do it too.

 

I recall being in a beginning music theory class, and the instructor was showing the class the difference between major and minor chords, and describing the different moods they evoked. Major sounds happy, minor sounds sad and gloomy. I understood this already, and had no trouble with it. I could feel it. What I came to realize though was that about a third of the class had no idea what he was talking about. They didn't feel anything. They were just flating a 3rd.

 

I think being able to feel the emotions and personalities of different chords makes it easier to disassemble them in your head, because you're asking yourself; what is it about this chord that makes it feel this way?. And this in turn makes it easier to play by ear. I don't know how you can teach that. My best advice is what I offered in my first post, and that is once you kind of have the song in your head, it helps to walk away from it and let difficult parts cycle through your head for a while. In time, at least for me, I get to a point where I suddenly 'get' what's going on, and then I can hum each note/interval to myself and play it on an instrument.

 

There's a guy who sees numbers as colors and textures. Some are warm or fuzzy, some are cool or sinister. He can do amazing things with numbers in his head. He comprehends numbers in a way I don't . To me a 7 or a 56, or a 128, mean essentially nothing. Just points on a line. And, not surprisingly, I completely suck at math.

 

My point is, I think having the ability to attach a personality to a chord or a number makes it easier to work with it in your head. I'm not comparing myself to a mathematical genius. There are plenty of people out there who can work with music in their heads in ways I could only aspire to. But clearly, not everyone possesses this capability.

[Cry Logic]

 

".....Major sounds happy, minor sounds sad and gloomy...."

I've always had a big problem with "minor" keys being tagged as "gloomy" & "sad".

To my ears "minor" keys sound infinitely more beautiful than "major" keys,

which, to me, sound "pedestrian" and "ordinary".

[amarule]

 

Except when you are called on to improvise. In which case no amount of reading skill will help....

 

 

IMO this could not be more false. Understanding music theory would greatly improve one's improv abilities, by understanding music structure.

[LiveMusic]

 

I don't mean to be the Devil's Advocate here, but why do people on this forum think it's here to talk about themselves ? Your responce has no diction on this thread in the slightest on why I asked my question. Do me a favor and just worry about keeping your chops up, I'm sure you could use it. And for people who read, we are here to help each other with support. Note the name called " Community " Forum. It's to help each other and communicate. What is the nature behind stating how good of a musician you are ? I assure you if any of us where any good we wouldn't spend the time bragin about it on a forum cheers

 

 

Oh, chosen one, that's one of the weirdest responses I've ever read to an innocent post. He made a perfectly valid post, you are way offbase. If you said that to his face, he'd probably kick your ass.

 

EDIT: Okay, I see others have posted about your response, I didn't see those until I had posted.

[The Chosen Few]

Oh, chosen one, that's one of the weirdest responses I've ever read to an innocent post. He made a perfectly valid post, you are way offbase. If you said that to his face, he'd probably kick your ass. EDIT: Okay, I see others have posted about your response, I didn't see those until I had posted.

 

Fair Enough, for I've had interest in the opinions said since the initial post

Thanks

[Philter]

 

I don't have the most talent for picking notes, chords etc out by ear, but I do find that the more exposure I have to playing them, I do get better. But where I have a much more difficult time is when songs are much more "produced", where I cannot hear a "clean" piano, guitar, etc. I am sure that hearing through the "layers" etc comes with experience as well, just like figuring out how the production has been accomplished. Does that make sense?

 

 

Just follow the bass... in any kind of pop music it will rarely mislead you.

[The Chosen Few]

 

Just follow the bass... in any kind of pop music it will rarely mislead you.

 

 

Yes that is definitely true.

When I realized that my ear is my most important tool I immediately decided to learn bass from scratch. If you can play the bass line you are just a touch away from jumping to the others.

For any one looking to gain a rhythmic ear, try to learn the bass lines to Reggea.

Great feel in the music.

[Cry Logic]

 

Just follow the bass... in any kind of pop music it will rarely mislead you.

 

 

I would add that, as well as the root note of the bass,

you really need to listen for the 3rd interval in any accompanying

parts to work out the major/minor axis of the tune...

 

Other intervals, such as 7th, 9th etc can also give you more options

for melodic ideas , but the 3rd is the one that defines the major/minor

axis.

 

If you can hear the root and the 3rd your 90% of the way towards

knowing what to play.

[Super 8]

 

I've always had a big problem with "minor" keys being tagged as "gloomy" & "sad". To my ears "minor" keys sound infinitely more beautiful than "major" keys, which, to me, sound "pedestrian" and "ordinary".

 

 

I think it depends. A straight minor chord to me is like black and white photography. It can have a kind of beauty to it. Phillip Glass does this well. He can use minors and augmented minors in a beautiful way, but his music is very black and white to me. In fact, if I'm out walking with my Zen and it's a bleak fall day, or it's full moon with a lot of clouds, I'll definitely put on some Phillip Glass and they go perfectly together.

 

Minor 7th's are beautiful to me, but in a deep emotional way. I think they go nice with deep dark colors. It's just amazing to hear how much emotion can be conveyed by blending notes together. I guess music really is the universal language. So much can be said without ever saying anything. It's interesting.

[Lee Knight]

 

I would add that, as well as the root note of the bass, you really need to listen for the 3rd interval in any accompanying parts to work out the major/minor axis of the tune... Other intervals, such as 7th, 9th etc can also give you more options for melodic ideas , but the 3rd is the one that defines the major/minor axis. If you can hear the root and the 3rd your 90% of the way towards knowing what to play.

 

 

 

That's a great bit of advice. It's something I do without thinking about it but reading your post it hit... yeah. That's what I'm listening for if I sit in with a band or just trying to figure changes to something.

 

That pair of tones points the way.