Members GVDub Posted May 20, 2008 Members Share Posted May 20, 2008 I say keep it open and civil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kurdy Posted May 20, 2008 Members Share Posted May 20, 2008 keep open Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dreabfly Posted May 21, 2008 Members Share Posted May 21, 2008 I think we've said everything. So I'll vote close. Although, I'm easy, really. (don't tell my mother). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MrKnobs Posted May 21, 2008 Moderators Share Posted May 21, 2008 How would they consider a transgender woman who marries a transgender man? They would be a male and a female anyway, wouldn't they? *head explodes* Terry D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rasputin1963 Posted May 21, 2008 Members Share Posted May 21, 2008 I've got a 100 posts! Bitches! just see how i roll the next 100! Open! Juicy subject. I remember the tale of a certain famous American tennis player in the 1970's who was born a man, became a transexual with all the surgery. In her new persona she surprised everyone by seeking females as sexual partners. Couldn't make this up. What say you to such a phenomenon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted May 21, 2008 Members Share Posted May 21, 2008 What say you to such a phenomenon? That I don't give a {censored}, maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Geoff Grace Posted May 21, 2008 Members Share Posted May 21, 2008 So this really is kind of political forum stuff but overall it's been civil...well, mostly That's why I vote to leave it open. Thanks, Craig. Best, Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kurdy Posted May 21, 2008 Members Share Posted May 21, 2008 Keep it open until it remains "civil". I have another question for those who are against gay marriages, transgender marriages etc...: How would they consider a transgender woman who marries a transgender man? They would be a male and a female anyway, wouldn't they? There actually was a couple just like that who were patrons at the place where I work. I think they moved away, but they used to come in quite frequently. They weren't married, but I could imagine it going that way. The guy (who considered himself a woman) also had a son from a previous relationship, whom he once brought in with him. I hate to think of the crap that kid's gonna have to go through. That's the only thing I have against marriage between transgender or same-sex couples--if they have, or decide to have children, their kids will have to deal with that baggage for the rest of their life. It's a bit selfish to bring a child into that type of situation, I think. On a related (and creepier) note, I came across the guy/girl's personal ad on a dating site, classifying himself as female. He (she) went on about sex, and how he loved to "explore". Guess theirs was an open relationship. If that isn't a reason to stay away from dating sites, I don't know what is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rasputin1963 Posted May 21, 2008 Members Share Posted May 21, 2008 The most shocking and poignant proof of sexual orientation being "born into" a person is the almost-unbelievable story of David Reimer. Read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alfonso Posted May 21, 2008 Members Share Posted May 21, 2008 Open! Juicy subject. I remember the tale of a certain famous American tennis player in the 1970's who was born a man, became a transexual with all the surgery. In her new persona she surprised everyone by seeking females as sexual partners. Couldn't make this up. What say you to such a phenomenon? Total refusal of maleness, both as identity and as sexual object....I think there is always an amount of identification with your sexual object. The relation reveals also the part of yourself identified in the other. A game of mirrors. BTW, I'm not an expert, these are free run thoughts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tusks Posted May 21, 2008 Members Share Posted May 21, 2008 That's why I vote to leave it open.Thanks, Craig.Best,Geoff +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flemtone Posted May 21, 2008 Members Share Posted May 21, 2008 My personal feeling, being a rather conservative and religious person, is that I'm uncomfortable with the term "marriage" being used. I have no problem with gays and lesbians being allowed domestic unions being allowed under the law. Being allowed? Really? You have no problem with them 'being allowed' domestic unions? That might be the most telling thing I've heard yet on this issue. Who are you, who are any of you, to "allow"? Most of what I hear on this board regarding this issue is 'us' and 'them'. Isn't that what this is supposed to address? Wasn't this country founded on 'We'? E Pluribus Unum - out of many, one. EDIT- Craig, my vote is 'open'. It's an interesting discussion, one that's virtually impossible to remain civil in any other forum at HC. This is why we love your forum and you, ya big galoot, in a manly non-gladiator type of way, that is... My goodness, a lot of growing up needs to be done in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted May 21, 2008 Members Share Posted May 21, 2008 Being allowed? Really? You have no problem with them 'being allowed' domestic unions? I caught that one too, Flem. Fortunately, in this country, "we" allow people like Knobs to express their opinion, no matter how misguided it is. Mighty generous of "us" to let "them" say stuff like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Super 8 Posted May 21, 2008 Author Members Share Posted May 21, 2008 Don't close my thread, Craig! That would be like....umm...pushing it back into the closet! I'm sure you'd feel bad if you went and did that. Damn, I got like 12 pages going here. How often do I ever post anything that generates this much interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Super 8 Posted May 21, 2008 Author Members Share Posted May 21, 2008 I remember the tale of a certain famous American tennis player in the 1970's who was born a man, became a transexual with all the surgery. In her new persona she surprised everyone by seeking females as sexual partners. Couldn't make this up. What say you to such a phenomenon? I think the thing that louses it up for the transgender/sexual (I get them mixed up....no pun intended;)) crowd is that there are some people who are just really, really confused. They adopt an "alternative" lifestyle thinking it's going to fix them, and it doesn't. I remember seeing a documentary on guys who cut their balls off. For some -for whatever reason- it was liberating, and their lives improved because of it. But there were others who I think were hoping cutting off their coin purse was going to help them and in the end it really didn't. For them, it's something else that's messed up and I think they're grasping for straws to find a fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Super 8 Posted May 21, 2008 Author Members Share Posted May 21, 2008 The most shocking and poignant proof of sexual orientation being "born into" a person is the almost-unbelievable story of David Reimer.Read about it here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer Yeah, I've seen stuff about this on TV. Babies born with ambiguous genitalia and the doctors take the liberty of making a 'best guess', and the parents are told to just raise the child as whatever gender and that the child will adapt. Bull{censored}. Very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dreabfly Posted May 21, 2008 Members Share Posted May 21, 2008 That's the only thing I have against marriage between transgender or same-sex couples--if they have, or decide to have children, their kids will have to deal with that baggage for the rest of their life. It's a bit selfish to bring a child into that type of situation, I think. I endured a lot of torture growing up - as the child of a "normal" heterosexual family - and I'm sure I'm not alone. I mean kids really hated me (in retrospect I think being smart as a child was far worse than being gay as an adult). Children can certainly be mean - but truthfully - parents are meaner - particularly when it comes to gays having children. Most of what they learn comes from their parents - and certainly all of the derogatory language. I know a lot of people who've grown up with different kinds of parents - bi-racial couples, gay couples, elderly couples, poor couples, super-religious couples. I'd say we all have our cross to bear. And childhood would be a lot easier if parents would make an effort to watch their prejudices around their children. The largest majority of gay parents right now are those that had children in straight relatsionships before they came out/discovered their true orientation. They can't really undo their parenthood. They are simply trying to follow their true life path and be parents at the same time. As for gay couples who have/adopt children - I have to say - from what I've seen they make GREAT parents. They have the distinct advantage of having children in their life because they desperately WANT them - not because someone got pregnant accidentally and now they're stuck with the result, or because they were pressured into it by society norms or their families. My best friends tried for 2 years before succeeding. I can already see that their kid is going to have an absolutely AWESOME life - regardless of the bullies that may come his way. He has two incredible women as parents, a father who will be a part of his life, and THREE sets of doting grandparents. If it takes a village - he's got one. The family "setup" doesn't seem to bother anyone. And if it did - they quickly got over it. Arguing that society should remain stagnant in response to bullies, in my opinion, is a little regressive. Is it the bullies who get to set the standard for our social progress? I guess that's always been the $50,000 question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Geoff Grace Posted May 21, 2008 Members Share Posted May 21, 2008 Yeah, a lot of misguided, well-meaning people made a similar argument against interracial marriage to me when I was in a serious relationship with an African American woman in the seventies. Can you imagine if Halle Berry's parents had taken that advice, or Barack Obama's? One day, not long from now, there will be famous children of gay couples who will be shaped to greatness, in part, by their parents' relationship. Best, Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alfonso Posted May 21, 2008 Members Share Posted May 21, 2008 Arguing that society should remain stagnant in response to bullies, in my opinion, is a little regressive. Is it the bullies who get to set the standard for our social progress? :thu::thu::thu::thu::thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted May 21, 2008 Members Share Posted May 21, 2008 Great posts from Dreabfly and Geoff on this page so far - posts that I think show a lot of wisdom! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dreabfly Posted May 21, 2008 Members Share Posted May 21, 2008 Great posts from Dreabfly and Geoff on this page so far - posts that I think show a lot of wisdom! Geoff and I are married, except that he plays the girl and I play the boy. Except on every third week of the month, when we switch roles, and the month of August when we date whomever we choose. The only problem is his wife doesn't like me and our children are starting to call him "Mommy." :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MrKnobs Posted May 21, 2008 Moderators Share Posted May 21, 2008 Being allowed? Really? You have no problem with them 'being allowed' domestic unions? That might be the most telling thing I've heard yet on this issue. Who are you, who are any of you, to "allow"?. I'm a voter. When I say "domestic union" I'm not talking about their personal living situation and arrangements, I'm talking about equal rights under the law (which is what this thread is about, isn't it?) Right now, unless I'm mistaken, they don't have that in most states and getting those legal rights are up to the voters and judiciary. Terry D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Geoff Grace Posted May 21, 2008 Members Share Posted May 21, 2008 LOL, Dreabfly -- hey you never know, in an alternate reality somewhere, it could all be true! Thanks, Ken, for your kind words! Best, Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted May 21, 2008 Members Share Posted May 21, 2008 Geoff and I are married, except that he plays the girl and I play the boy. Except on every third week of the month, when we switch roles, and the month of August when we date whomever we choose. The only problem is his wife doesn't like me and our children are starting to call him "Mommy." :p Oh, wow, you think you know a person... Congratulations, you two! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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