Gibson Melody Maker Reissue - Refinish

[jonreedsoula1]

Hi everyone,

 

I have a 2009 reissue sunburst Melody maker which is a cool guitar but I don't really like the finish which is dull with a very thin coat of nitro. I've looked at buying a vintage one as the paint job and finish on these look amazing, but due to the price I'm sticking with the reissue for now.

 

I've just order some Gerlitz no1 guitar wax, will I be able to get a nice glossy look with this? The other option I understand is to apply some nitro myself, I've no experience in doing this though and sounds like it could easily go wrong.

 

Has anyone ever achieved a nice shine on a Melody maker purely using wax? Or by any other method? Very grateful for any advice.

 

Cheers!

[WRGKMC]

I realize having a guitar shine might be something you might desire, but the difficulty refinishing or over-spraying really isn't something you want to mess with, especially if you have no experience doing it.

 

First, Once a guitars been waxed, you have to strip the wax off to get a new finish to stick to it. Many waxes also contain silicones and oils which prevent lacquer from properly adhering to it. This usually requires you sand into the existing finish to roughen it up. Seeing this is a thin finished guitar that likely takes you down to the wood.

 

Applying a proper finish and getting it to look as good as a new guitar is not easy. I been doing builds and finishing/refinishing guitars for 45+ years and its the one thing I dread the most. Its time consuming, unforgiving and expensive. I often avoid it by using simpler finishes like Tung oil which can be wiped on instead of spraying.

 

The proper way to apply lacquer is with a spray gun. In the summer season you have to add dryers which make the finish dry quicker without trapping moisture and you have to use many more layers which means more wasted spray. As the layers build you add more and more lacquer thinner till its mostly thinner for the last coats to get that liquid look.

 

If you use cans of spray then it requires more sanding between coats to cure mistakes and get rid of drips and runs. You also need to use a buffer and buffing compounds to put a polish on it once the finish is done. To do it right you need the tools and supplies for all of this, sander, buffer, lacquer, sand paper, polishing compounds. If you go cheap and try to do it by hand you may get away with spending $100~150 but the quality can wind up being worse. It can be worse if you don't know the exact methods and lack of tools too. There's nothing easy about it even if you have the experience and no matter what, there will be flaws and you'll always know those flaws are there.

 

 

This is why my first suggestion is simply wax the thing and forget about refinishing. If it doesn't shine as much, get over it. Its not going to affect the playability and in the end that's ALL that matters.

 

If you want to learn how to refinish, get yourself a Junker to practice on.(or maybe 4 or 5 before you start to get the hang of it) The experience doesn't come easy and you should not attempt your first attempt on a quality instrument. Even on a Junker you may wind up stripping everything back off and starting over again. Beware its a nasty, sticky job which creates allot of dust and fumes. You need to let it dry and cure in the right temp and humidity and in the summer months that means inside. It can take a couple of weeks minimum too. If you rush the coats you'll wind up having to strip it off and start over. Even with my experience I have a 50/50 chance of getting a botch and have to either correct it by allowing it to dry and getting rid of the flaws or simply strip it and start over. I know if I simply let it go adding more layers over it doesn't mask the problem below.

[jonreedsoula1]

Thanks for this, very helpful, I guess I will forget about adding any extra nitro.

You mentioned tung oil and this is something I've been reading about, is it possible to just add a few layers of tung oil over the top of the nitro finish or would this not work well? - again if sanding the current finish is involved then I won't bother

 

It might be that the wax does a good enough job. To be honest I'm not wanting or expecting a thick poly-eque mirrored finish, I just wanted to add a little shine and bring out the depths of the colours more.

[badpenguin]

I disagree with the wax thingy. It feels weird, and you constantly need to re-apply it.

Compound 7, a polishing agent, a drill with a polishing cloth/sponge, or a bench grinder with same, and polish. And polish. And polish some more. And, you guessed it, polish some more still. Once that's done, get some rotten stone. (also known as ground pumice. yeah, that stuff from a volcano.) and guess what? That's right polish with a few drops of water. It stinks, it gets EVERYWHERE, and it's time consuming. but it works wonders.

 

And no, you can't add tung over nitro.

[jonreedsoula1]

Thanks for this. I've never tried wax before so will give it a blast so I know what I'm dealing with.

I think the only issue with that level of polishing on a Melody Maker is the nitro finish is very, very thin and it won't take long to polish straight through it.

Thanks again

[badpenguin]

ok, once you get it on though,. know it will take almost a complete refinish to remove it.

[pekelnik]

To make matters more complicated, I'm going to give an exactly opposite answer

 

I've recently re-finished the top of a tribute (= thin satin finish) Les Paul: http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/forum/guitar/acapella-41/31994994-2017-tribute-t-ngd

 

First of all- I would not put wax on it in any case. You may not need to apply anything at all in fact. Get fine sand papers (1000-2000) and a polishing compound, like novus no.2 polish. If the surface is grain-filled (i.e. you don't see any grain when looking at the surface), you can polish with 1000, and progressively finer and finish with the polishing compound. If you do not have grain filling, you can do the same, but you won't get a mirror-like finish, but it will still be shiny. (Check out sides of the guitar in that thread above.)

 

If you really want shiny: I applied nitro from a spray can (By Rothko&Frost in the UK - this might be important) and it was the easiest finish I have ever applied. No runs or drips, if dust lands on the piece it's very easy to lightly sand out before you put on the next coat. It requires patience but anything you screw up is fixable since all the coats just merge into a single coat. The end result looks better than factory made glossy finishes since it can be thinner but shinier. (Requires more sanding and polishing effort of course.)

 

I used tru-oil on a telecaster that had it's own build thread here years ago and it's a wonderful finish (not really oil though, it solidifies completely). But it's much harder to apply properly, being really demanding on perfect sanding discipline and good light to see that you haven't left a single scratch anywhere. Dust sticks to it and is harder to get off. On the plus side, it isn't toxic unlike nitrocellulose and can be applied indoors in a ventilated area.

[Freeman Keller]

Wax or any product with silicon will not give you the finish you want and will make it impossible to do any finishing in the future if you decide to try it. Next, do not apply any finish other than nitro over the existing nitro - you will just make a mess that will require complete stripping to fix.

 

Some people have moderately good luck using automotive polishing compounds and a buffing wheel to bring up the gloss on satin guitars however since they are abrasive you have to be very careful not to burn thru the finish. If you are thinking about refinishing anyway it might be worth a shot. I would start with 1000 grit wet and dry sand paper, sand the entire guitar using water, then skip to 1200, and finally 1500 grit. Next buff with medium and fine polishing compounds using either a pedestal buffer or a foam pad in a drill motor. I use Mequiars professional #2 and #3 polishes, StewMac's medium and fine are good too. Take off every bit of hardware, mask fretboard and cavities, and go slowly with the pressure on your buffer. Be particularly careful on edges and binding - its very easy to burn thru.

 

If you decide to refinish it you are in luck, according to Gibson's site they did use nitro on this guitar and nitro is the one finish that the diy person can deal with. I always test first - put a tiny drop of lacquer thinner on a spot that will be hidden (under a tuning machine maybe) - if it softens the finish it is lacquer. Remove all hardware, mask everything, scuff sand the old lacquer and spray ten to twenty coats, three per day with sanding to about 400 grit between each set. Remember that nitrocellulose lacquer is toxic, explosive and harmful to the environment - spray with good ventilation and keep away from any sources of spark. Since you probably don't have a compressor use rattle cans of instrument grade lacquer (StewMac, Reranch, etc).

 

Let the last coats cure for two or three weeks (seriously), then do the wet sanding and buffing as above.

 

There was very recently a thread by a forumite who wanted to add "binding" to a new Tribute which involved adding finish and buffing. The second half of this thread describes it well and you can see that he did get a beautiful glossy finish

 

http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/forum/guitar/acapella-41/31994994-2017-tribute-t-ngd

[jonreedsoula1]

I must admit I'm tempted to try the can of nitro approach. Your satin Les Paul looks great and that's the kind of look I'm after. My girlfirend wisely pointed out however that I'm clearly not 100% about this Melody maker anyway and if I'm likely to sell it and buy a Vintage one in the future - any mods are a bad idea.... good advice. I'll see what I can do with polish, wax and buffering for now I think.

 

Thanks for the great advice

[Freeman Keller]

Looks like I was posting this about the same time Pekeinik - I'll just say this once more. Your choices are either/or - if you wax your guitar you MAY get the results you want, but you doom yourself to any finishing. If you want to try buffing it and are very careful you have a pretty good chance of getting a better gloss. If you really want the deep glossy finish you should apply more nitro and buff it.

 

Guitars are given a satin finish for one reason only - it saves time and money during fabrication.

[Freeman Keller]

Jonreedsoula, whatever you decide to do, how about taking a before and after picture so we can see how effective it was and you can describe the process.

[WRGKMC]

Most Tung oild contain varnishes and will apply over lacquer, but since its wiped or brushed on its not going to look nice and smooth like a sprayed finish. It also yellows the finish. If the guitar is red it will look orange, if its blue it will turn green etc.