Members Verne Andru Posted January 9, 2008 Members Share Posted January 9, 2008 Yo - I usually hang in the guitar section, but you guy's seem to have a handle on power amps, so here I am. I'm putting together a bass rig. I have a preamp with a cross-over that gives me low, high and mixed outputs. I have a 2x12 sub cab and a 1x15 JBL in another cab. What I'm wanting to get is a 2 channel power amp so I can take the low output from the pre, run it through 1 channel on the power amp and have it drive the subs and take the mixed output through the other channel to drive the 1 x 15. There are a ton of different power amps out there and I need help sorting the good from the crap. I don't want to spend a ton of money on this and am looking at used gear, but someone had mentioned older power amps get "tired" - anyone able to comment on that? So here's the list as far as I'm aware. If you could chime in and help me sift the wheat from the chaff, that would be grand: QSCCrownPeaveySamsonCrestBehringerCarvinStewartPyleProNandyMackieTapco? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted January 9, 2008 Members Share Posted January 9, 2008 What are your requirements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Verne Andru Posted January 9, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 9, 2008 What are your requirements? Usage or power? I need something loud enough to hang with a drummer for rehearsals and small gigs unaided. For larger venues I'd like to go DI to the front of the house and have the same rig act as a stage monitor. Power-wise I'm thinking 300 watts a channel into 8 ohm, but am open to suggestions. I'm not exactly sure what I'll need to drive the subs and get a good balance between the subs and the 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted January 9, 2008 Members Share Posted January 9, 2008 I don't know exactly how to answer ... There's almost no difference in the "sound" of amplifiers ... providing you don't exceed the clean output of the amp. Whether or not 300w is loud enough will depend on how efficient your speakers are and how much dynamic range you require ... the more dynamics you have the less loudness you will have. It gets down to things like price, size, ruggedness, thermal and short circuit reliability and weight. Generally the more of these you want and the lower the weight the more it will cost. There's also the length of the warranty and service. There's also matching the power of the amps to the power that your speakers can handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted January 9, 2008 Members Share Posted January 9, 2008 I used to use an Ashley Pre into an old Peavey CS400 powering a 4x10 (highs) and an 1x18 (lows). That worked great. The advantage of that set up was that I could get away with just the 4x10 cab at smaller shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Verne Andru Posted January 9, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 9, 2008 It gets down to things like price, size, ruggedness, thermal and short circuit reliability and weight. Generally the more of these you want and the lower the weight the more it will cost. There's also the length of the warranty and service.There's also matching the power of the amps to the power that your speakers can handle. And that's pretty much what I'm looking for here. The speaker configurations will change over time, but I'm wanting to get a solid head-end that will cover the basis. I have a line on a used QSC USA 400 AMP in like new condition for $170. It's 110 watts / 220 bridged and takes up 3U spaces. OTOH, in the 2U category, there's the Crown Xs500 that fluctuates between $350 and $450 @ MF [depending on the day] which is 400W / 1,450W bridged. The TAPCO J-800 is 229.99 @ Sweetwater and it's 800 watts bridged [they don't say what the single channel is]. The Peavey PV 900 is 2 x 450-watt for $299.99. Then there's the Nandy, Samson, PylePro and a bunch of others I know nothing about. Perhaps the easier question is, does the QSC seem like a good deal or should I be looking at the others more seriously? Too many choices I guess...information overload! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Verne Andru Posted January 9, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 9, 2008 I used to use an Ashley Pre into an old Peavey CS400 powering a 4x10 (highs) and an 1x18 (lows). That worked great. The advantage of that set up was that I could get away with just the 4x10 cab at smaller shows. I'm with you here. This type of preamp->poweramp->speakers config seems the most flexible and makes much more sense to me than getting a dedicated bass amp. A lot cheaper and should produce better sound as well me thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted January 9, 2008 Members Share Posted January 9, 2008 Check out Carvin, also. They have some really good 2U & 3U stereo amps and are priced pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Verne Andru Posted January 9, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 9, 2008 I looked at Carvin but their least expensive unit is around $400. Not to say that's not a bad price, it's just that there seems to be better value out there such as the PV and Tapco units over at Sweetwater. I'm really liking that Crown Xs500 [anybody using this?] but the pricing keeps shifting with the wind. I'm thinking a 3U unit is going to be way bulky. The new Stewarts and QSC's are in 1U packages, but the pricing is way up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted January 9, 2008 Members Share Posted January 9, 2008 but the pricing keeps shifting with the wind. I'm thinking a 3U unit is going to be way bulky. The new Stewarts and QSC's are in 1U packages, but the pricing is way up there.QSC has a current 1-space model? Hard to beat a Soundtech PS800/802. Single space, 400/channel, 15lbs. The Peavey DPC 750/1000/1400 are also worthy choices and about the same size and weight. I you don't need that much power, check out the single-space ART models. They make two of them. Lower output but pretty cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Verne Andru Posted January 9, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 9, 2008 QSC has a current 1-space model? My bad - I was flipping through the latest GP and at a glance their ad looked like 1U, but when I checked they are 2. Sorry. Where would one go about tracking down a Soundtech PS800? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted January 10, 2008 Members Share Posted January 10, 2008 My bad - I was flipping through the latest GP and at a glance their ad looked like 1U, but when I checked they are 2. Sorry.Where would one go about tracking down a Soundtech PS800?Any place that sells Soundtech/Washburn/Randall. There have been a couple nice looking ones on Ebay for pretty cheap the last couple weeks. I've had an 802 for 7-8 years now for running monitors. Very good little amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted January 10, 2008 Members Share Posted January 10, 2008 http://cgi.ebay.com/SoundTech-800-watt-PS800-Amplifier-1U-High_W0QQitemZ320199080071 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 10, 2008 Members Share Posted January 10, 2008 The USA-400 is too small, and bridging won't help because you need 2 channels. An RMX-1450 would be a good choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Verne Andru Posted January 10, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 10, 2008 The USA-400 is too small, and bridging won't help because you need 2 channels.An RMX-1450 would be a good choice. That's what I was looking to hear - thanks. Great price on that Soundtech tlbonehead, too bad it's gone. I'll set up an eBay search to keep notified. Any preferences between these 3 - they're all $299: Peavey PV 900 http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PV900/TAPCO J-1400 http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/J1400/Samson Servo 600 http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Servo600/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 10, 2008 Members Share Posted January 10, 2008 None of those are in the same class, not close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Verne Andru Posted January 10, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 10, 2008 None of those are in the same class, not close. Forgot this one: ART SLA2 http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i-ART-SLA2.html So I did a search on the RMX and found one at Zzounds for $429 and the single review goes... (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((OVER RATED))))))))))))))))))))))))))" Feature:Nothing to it but the volume nobs, led light for signal and peak, at the back features for stereo, bridge and parallel connection. Quality:I must say I am very disappointed in this amplifier, you would have better, much better luck with the Crown Macro Tech Series. The Crown Macro Series are unlikely to peak frequently way above peak wattage stated on the manual which mean low distortion at high volume with a 30 amp fuse mean more power input, in turn means more power output. Which I think everyone wants. Value:I honestly think you maybe paying a little more for what this amplifier dishes out. You are just paying the extra money for the name. Desirability:I think I wouldnt want another RMX Series unless its power rated at 5000 peak watts like the 5050 rmx, and it was sold to me for $699. Other than that I don't want another QSC amplifier. Sound:I've observes and I am sure anyone with the knowledge of amplifiers would agree that the QSC RMX Series peak very quickly, giving the phrase, "Head Room" alot to be desired. There is practically very little "head room", if an amplifier's led light peaks frequently when the volume is pushed, the disappointing issue of distortion that comes with the peak, ie. "Peak Distortion" Its like the wind been punch out of the lungs of the transformer. Support:They are reliable strong, but still lack dramatically. Overall:I am just disappointed in this product. http://www.zzounds.com/item--QSCRMX1450 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted January 10, 2008 Members Share Posted January 10, 2008 I say buy the cheapest one. If it works well for you then you got the best bang for the buck for your application. If it fails miserably, then you aren't out much and you can use your cheap education in the future when deciding on the tool for the job (like many of us here). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted January 10, 2008 Members Share Posted January 10, 2008 Forgot this one:ART SLA2 http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i-ART-SLA2.htmlSo I did a search on the RMX and found one at Zzounds for $429 and the single review goes...(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((OVER RATED))))))))))))))))))))))))))"Feature:Nothing to it but the volume nobs, led light for signal and peak, at the back features for stereo, bridge and parallel connection.Quality:I must say I am very disappointed in this amplifier, you would have better, much better luck with the Crown Macro Tech Series. The Crown Macro Series are unlikely to peak frequently way above peak wattage stated on the manual which mean low distortion at high volume with a 30 amp fuse mean more power input, in turn means more power output. Which I think everyone wants.Value:I honestly think you maybe paying a little more for what this amplifier dishes out. You are just paying the extra money for the name.Desirability:I think I wouldnt want another RMX Series unless its power rated at 5000 peak watts like the 5050 rmx, and it was sold to me for $699. Other than that I don't want another QSC amplifier.Sound:I've observes and I am sure anyone with the knowledge of amplifiers would agree that the QSC RMX Series peak very quickly, giving the phrase, "Head Room" alot to be desired. There is practically very little "head room", if an amplifier's led light peaks frequently when the volume is pushed, the disappointing issue of distortion that comes with the peak, ie. "Peak Distortion" Its like the wind been punch out of the lungs of the transformer.Support:They are reliable strong, but still lack dramatically.Overall:I am just disappointed in this product.http://www.zzounds.com/item--QSCRMX1450 Funny thing is: Reviews like this seemingly never offer a counter point... as-in: *This* compaired to *that* at a similar price. Completely pointless testimonial without that vital bit of information IMO. Yea... Fords suck... and so does chocolate milkshakes. So does absolutely everything else that I don't like. And everything I like is GREAT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gregidon Posted January 10, 2008 Members Share Posted January 10, 2008 Forgot this one: ART SLA2 http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i-ART-SLA2.html So I did a search on the RMX and found one at Zzounds for $429 and the single review goes... (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((OVER RATED))))))))))))))))))))))))))" Feature: Nothing to it but the volume nobs, led light for signal and peak, at the back features for stereo, bridge and parallel connection. Quality: I must say I am very disappointed in this amplifier, you would have better, much better luck with the Crown Macro Tech Series. The Crown Macro Series are unlikely to peak frequently way above peak wattage stated on the manual which mean low distortion at high volume with a 30 amp fuse mean more power input, in turn means more power output. Which I think everyone wants. Value: I honestly think you maybe paying a little more for what this amplifier dishes out. You are just paying the extra money for the name. Desirability: I think I wouldnt want another RMX Series unless its power rated at 5000 peak watts like the 5050 rmx, and it was sold to me for $699. Other than that I don't want another QSC amplifier. Sound: I've observes and I am sure anyone with the knowledge of amplifiers would agree that the QSC RMX Series peak very quickly, giving the phrase, "Head Room" alot to be desired. There is practically very little "head room", if an amplifier's led light peaks frequently when the volume is pushed, the disappointing issue of distortion that comes with the peak, ie. "Peak Distortion" Its like the wind been punch out of the lungs of the transformer. Support: They are reliable strong, but still lack dramatically. Overall: I am just disappointed in this product. http://www.zzounds.com/item--QSCRMX1450 So basically you've got one guy on the internet who says he thinks the RMX-1450 is a good solution for you (Andy), and one guy who says it sucks (no idea). How about asking Andy what he thinks about the random guy's opinions? (P.s. I think that guy is full of it, he's comparing Crown's Macro-tech line of amps, i.e. $1k+ amps to a $400 amp. What exactly does he expect? It's like saying my PLX amp sucks compared to my Powerlight.... well.... duh.... people on the internet at dumb :poke: ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 10, 2008 Members Share Posted January 10, 2008 Reading this zzsounds review only tells me that the "reviewer" is a clueless, uneducated, inexperienced poser. Anybody knowledgable in the industry would reach much the same conclusion. I second Mark's suggestion, go buy whatever is cheapest and maybe you will learn a valuable lesson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Verne Andru Posted January 10, 2008 Author Members Share Posted January 10, 2008 Reading this zzsounds review only tells me that the "reviewer" is a clueless, uneducated, inexperienced poser.Anybody knowledgable in the industry would reach much the same conclusion.I second Mark's suggestion, go buy whatever is cheapest and maybe you will learn a valuable lesson. I've read enough reviews, both pro and con, to take this stuff with a grain of salt - which is why I bothered to post it here. OTOH, MF reviews on the same amp are very good. Wish HC had a review section for these amps like it does for bass and guitar. As far as buying the cheapest and "learning a valuable lesson" - well, been there and done that which is why I'm in here asking you'all for the benefit of your experience. I've been doing the music thing off and on since the '60's and know there is good and bad - I just am not familiar with this part of the market. As with every "niche," there are diamonds in the rough that you come to know through experience. There are also real pieces of turd that I'd rather not step in, if I have the choice. I appreciate you sharing your hard won knowledge. It's what makes HC such a great community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted January 10, 2008 Members Share Posted January 10, 2008 First, the reviewer of the RMX is an idiot. Now to your questions. I have quite a few RMX amps that have worked reliably for years. They have been run bridged in excess of 300 shows in weather from 30 to 110 degrees powering one of my systems. They have never let me down. They sound as good as anything remotely close to the same price. I would not hesitate to use them for anything. They are very good on power consumption and if run according to specs will not give you problems. However, if you are going to be lugging this around everytime you pick up your bass to go somewhere, I would be looking at a PLX (currently good used prices since PLX2 came out) or an XTI or something with a switching supply. Your back will thank you. 40 lbs of RMX for every trip out the door will wear on you unless you normally take your gear in a rolling rack...or have been carrying a vintage SVT head around and acclimated to the weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heatheroo Posted January 10, 2008 Members Share Posted January 10, 2008 I'm using a QSC RMX850 for exactly the same application. 200W/ch into 8ohms, 300W/ch into 4ohms. A little less power than the 1450 recommended by Agedhorse and a little cheaper but a nice amp. It's got switchable filters, limiters, etc. I have been happy with it. I'm driving 2 EVM15's for the low end and a GK 1-15 cab for the high end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted January 10, 2008 Members Share Posted January 10, 2008 Peavey had some 1U DECA amps that might work. I like the idea of a pre amp/crossover and power amp in a 2U rack or bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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