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Unnoficial info and gossip from Annual International Congress of Pro-Audio

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  • Unnoficial info and gossip from Annual International Congress of Pro-Audio

    I have a good friend who's an engineer for some major acts in Brazil and he called me after this year's International Pro-Audio congress down there. Here's some gossip from an insider:

    Amps - He was amazed by Powersoft's Digam K-20. He's been a Studio R fan for a long time, but mentioned that if had to choose, he'd pick the Powersoft.

    Speakers - Loved B&C new releases, followed by 18 Sound (I'm not sure which other brands were there, I know Selenium was).

    Speaking of Selenium, the giant manufacturer has been bought by Harman, link:

    http://www.harman.com/EN-US/Newscenter/Pages/HARMANAnnouncesAgreementtoAcquireAudioInnovatorEle tr%C3%B4nicaSeleniumSAofBrazil.aspx

    Gossip - He heard that JBL will stop manufacturing their own speakers and will have Selenium/Harman making them.

    Line Arrays - After the listening session, he was most impressed by arrays from these brands (didn't mention models), in the following order:

    DAS
    Attack - http://www.attack.com.br/
    EV
    Norton
    Adamson
    Triple Onda - http://www.tripleonda.com/en/great-events
    FZ Audio
    Staner

    Again, these are just personal opinions and comments from an experienced engineer. Random info that somebody may find interesting.
    YMMV.

    Release your inner DJ... then you will begin to see.

  • #2
    How is this useful?

    Comment


    • #3
      How is this useful?


      I'll explain:

      Person 1 wants lots of power in minimum space but never heard of Powersoft, then they find out that the Digam K20 puts out 18KW in a single rack space.

      Person 2 wants to buy a Line Array system and isn't sure about brand and model. He/she thinks: "Hmmm, maybe I'll try those DAS as well..."

      Fair?
      YMMV.

      Release your inner DJ... then you will begin to see.

      Comment


      • #4
        Okay.

        Comment


        • #5
          I'll explain:

          Person 1 wants lots of power in minimum space but never heard of Powersoft, then they find out that the Digam K20 puts out 18KW in a single rack space.

          Person 2 wants to buy a Line Array system and isn't sure about brand and model. He/she thinks: "Hmmm, maybe I'll try those DAS as well..."

          Fair?


          This is cool and all, and I'm just asking, but who would want 18KW out of a single RU. I mean, that's 75 amps @ 240 volts in a 1.75 inch high enclosure. Are these units UL listed for use in the USA? I can imagine the concentrated magnetic field every time some hits a kick!! You could demagnetize all of your tools by putting them on top of the unit! I think I would get a bigger rack.

          Rick

          Comment


          • #6
            This is cool and all, and I'm just asking, but who would want 18KW out of a single RU. I mean, that's 75 amps @ 240 volts in a 1.75 inch high enclosure. Are these units UL listed for use in the USA? I can imagine the concentrated magnetic field every time some hits a kick!! You could demagnetize all of your tools by putting them on top of the unit! I think I would get a bigger rack.

            Rick


            Someone putting on a big show would want this. More power, less space, incredible reliability and factory backing. Not a bad combination, but the ante is steep.
            .....

            Comment


            • #7
              Someone putting on a big show would want this. More power, less space, incredible reliability and factory backing. Not a bad combination, but the ante is steep.


              dont they cost around the price of a less expensive new car?
              band status - "its complicated"

              Comment


              • #8
                Not UL listed for sale in the US and I do not know if they carry a CE certification as the RFI leakage (conducted and radiated) is sure to exceed current standards for a single device unless it's certified as something other than an amplifier... like an indistrial PWM supply or something. It's a rough and uncharted area of the CE system.
                -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/Fender Musical Instruments Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

                Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

                Comment


                • #9
                  It's true that you have to have a use, and a way to distribute, that much power. I work with a fellow that powers his entire sub system (8X 21" Adamson subs) with just one powersoft amp. He does have the power distro setup to power it as well (I think he uses 208V) from a transformer. It's interesting to get thumped at 200' from a single r.u. amp though. In the end it's very power efficient (it only uses what it needs) and is cost effective ($ per watt), IF you really use all of that power.
                  J.R. Previously jrble

                  See my Dog Of The Hair studio at: http://www.dogoth.com/studio/

                  Quote from someone: Flat response? Get out the jack and change the tire.
                  If you think "power is knowledge", you have it backwards.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Actually, they do have CE cert, no UL listing.

                    And yes, they cost as much as a decent used car ($12,000). But it's Powersoft, man....it'll outlive us all.
                    .....

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      This is cool and all, and I'm just asking, but who would want 18KW out of a single RU. I mean, that's 75 amps @ 240 volts in a 1.75 inch high enclosure.


                      People with bad backs should have the opportunity to avoid the terrors of underpowering too, y'know!!!

                      I mean, 18KW, thats only going to power 4 cabs rated at 1.125kw RMS each...you need the headroom to comply with the peak power rating, right?

                      Barely enough for a jazz club!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Actually, they do have CE cert, no UL listing.

                        And yes, they cost as much as a decent used car ($12,000). But it's Powersoft, man....it'll outlive us all.


                        Their CE cert. can not be under the traditional catagories that pro audio falls under, the problem is that the EMI limits just can't be met when considering the standards... even the industrial. Maybe I am missing something, or there is an industrial catagory that this product falls under but then it's generally not accepted for sale through retail market means.

                        Don or Jim, do you have any idea how this might get a CE certification under the EMC Directive where EMC strength would of course exceed the A and B limits just due to the size of the amplifier?
                        -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/Fender Musical Instruments Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

                        Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          From the Powersoft manual, I am not familiar with these standards, but this is what they describe for CE certification.

                          K20
                          This equipment has been tested and found to compliant by Competent Body (Directive 89/336/EEC-EMC) pursuant to the
                          product family standard for audio professional use:
                          EN 55103-1 and EN 55103-2 standard ); EN61000- 3 - 2 , EN 61000 - 3 - 3.
                          Conducted Emissions : Electromagnetic Ambient E4, E5 / Class A
                          Radiated Emissions : Electromagnetic Ambient E4, E5 / Class A
                          In a domestic environment this product may cause radio interferences in which case the user may be required to take
                          adequate measures.
                          This equipment has been tested and found to comply by Notified Body (Directive 2006/95/EEC L.V) pursuant to the
                          audioapparatus safety requirements: Standard EN 60065.

                          http://pro-audio.powersoft.it/an_series_list.php?use_in=53&id_menu=271&obj=12


                          Check the downloads at the bottom of the page.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It should be EN55013, I will have to look up the E-4 and E-5 application, perhaps there is a ratio of RFI to line current modifier here but I haven't seen it. Class A is the commercial standard.

                            The problem I see is that the mains current that's being rectified and switched is so high under even 1/8-power (reqd. standard) that the sheer magnitude of the residual will be high.

                            One way around this is to lok at how they are doing the ratings... for example they may use 1/8 of the continuous rating which is considerably less than 20kW... in fact it may only be 5kW, and this would lower the measured radiations by between 4 and 18 times depending on the source.

                            This is an example of the limitations we run up against when designing new products that may replace 10 conventional amps for instance and have a lower total radiated noise but for a single unit be higher than allowable. I suspect that there are some new ammendments addresing this and EU companies are always the first to get them memos. In fact, much information APPEAR to be "withheld" from the non-EU competition until the very last moment.
                            -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/Fender Musical Instruments Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

                            Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              1/8th is generally the way UL looks at things anyway. CE is generally a "self certified" mark while UL or ETL must measure the units themselves so it's a much tougher standard to meet.
                              Don Boomer

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