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  • Adding Add'tl Speakers for Mains - Use Same Kind or Different?

    Have an outdoor concert coming up, one of those "pre-fireworks" shows on July 3rd - looking to "beef up" the PA a bit.  :smiley-music010:

    I have a pair of QSC K12's I usually use for mains & also have a pair of the K10's I usually use for stage monitors.  I also have access to another pair of K12's - would like to add to them as mains for add'tl volume as it's an outdoor show - 4 piece band: bass, guitar drums, keys (me) - all 4 of us sing. :smiley-music021:

    Just bought a MixWiz3 - am excited to use it on this gig, iit'll be the 1st time out! :smiley-bounce013:

    Should I have two pairs of K12's on either side of stage - both mounted on spkr. stands next to eachother (as mains) - or should I use one K12, one K10 on each side of the stage (as mains)?

    Also - is putting the mains right next to eachother on stands ok or should I space each pair few feet apart (still on stands)?

    Will have an older JBL powered sub - bass player owns - not fantastic but it does the job... I guess I should run from the MixWiz3 to the QSC's, then to the sub, utilizing the QSC built-in crossovers?  The sub has it's own xover as well but I'm thinking the QSC xover's would be better to use, I can put the switch on all the mains to the "external sub" position - running from mixer, to 1st main to 2nd main then to sub.

    Is this feasible setup?


    Thx! :smiley-eatdrink004:

     

     

    "Gigito ergo sum: I Gig, therefore I Am."


    Keys:
    Yamaha MotifXF6 - (bottom tier) & Korg M361 (top)
    Roland RD300GX (88 keys - smaller gigs & when I play left hand bass)

    Mixers, Spkrs.:
    (2) QSC K12's, (2) QSC K10's, (2) QSC K8's
    1 JBL PRX715XLF Subwoofer
    Motion Sound KP200S & KP100S kybd. amps (rarely use any more)
    Allen & Heath MixWiz3, Soundcraft MFXi8, Yamaha MG82cx,
    Mackie ProFX12, Alesis TransActive 50, [Samson PL1602 - For Sale]
    Fender Rumble 100 Bass Amp (for Ibanez SR500 Bass)

  • #2

    You likely already know there's not enough low end going on for an outdoor rock band. If it were me I'd do this.

    - (2) K12's per side and right next to each other (not separated). Angle one slightly in and the other slightly out, especially if there are people on the left and right of you.

    - Run the K12's full range, just be mindful not to boost the lows (use the Norm) setting.

    - Run the single sub off the Sub out of the Mixwiz. This way you don't have to have as much cabling daisy chained from stack to stack.

    - Put the single sub in the middle 

    PA: JBL PRX712, PRX718XLF, RCF 745-A, 522-A, 310A, A&H Qu-16
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    Comment


    • GigMan
      GigMan commented
      Editing a comment

      abzurd wrote:

      You likely already know there's not enough low end going on for an outdoor rock band. If it were me I'd do this.

      - (2) K12's per side and right next to each other (not separated). Angle one slightly in and the other slightly out, especially if there are people on the left and right of you.

      - Run the K12's full range, just be mindful not to boost the lows (use the Norm) setting.

      - Run the single sub off the Sub out of the Mixwiz. This way you don't have to have as much cabling daisy chained from stack to stack.

      - Put the single sub in the middle 


      Sean -

      Thx for the info, much appreciated.

      You are right & I do know that having only one powered sub is a little weak on the bass end for an outdoor show "pre-fireworks" concert on a football field - but the bass player's one old powered sub is all I have access to for this show - - actually he has a second one but it will be out at another gig of this same band the other "unit" is playing in a different town somewhere the same night...

      I just bought the MixWiz3, will be delighted to be running that for this concert, it'll be the MW's 1st time out.

      Next year's "big purchase" will likely be a JBL PRX618 XLF maybe I'll get one by this year's end and then one next spring?- - but my wife would crucify me if I got that now, right after getting the MIxWiz3 (which was a purchase I'd been deliberating over for a long time).


      You think running the QSC K12's full range is Ok, even when mic'ing kick drum & putting bass thru the system?


      Btw - I thought the JBL PRX618 XLF's came down in price $300 - - was that only temporary?  I'm not seeing that price reduction any more.


  • #3

    Another way to try your setup is have 2 K12s on each side. Have the outside speakers on the Left master out. The inside speakers on the Right master out. Pan vocals Right. Everything else Left. This is a basic dual PA setup. This divides the workload between the speakers and reduces the possible bad interactions between the 2 speakers being close together reproducing the same content. (I've worked with K12s before but not 2 aside so they may or may not work well coupled with the same content to each)

    I have a 3rd of July band where I'm using the same type setup with 2 different speakers. I'll report back how well or not 2 different types "play" together in a Dual PA setup when I'm done the show.

    Dookietwo

     

     

    Comment


    • #4
      2 per side is fine, close together. Don't worry about dual pa stuff, you will have bigger things to worry about. Use common sense with the volume.
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/FMIC/JAM Industries Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

      Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

      Comment


      • GigMan
        GigMan commented
        Editing a comment

        agedhorse wrote:
        2 per side is fine, close together. Don't worry about dual pa stuff, you will have bigger things to worry about. Use common sense with the volume.

        Aye - I'm glad to hear that Andy... because it's much simpler that way.

        Plus as a keyboard player :smiley-music022: - - I like to run my keys in stereo thru the mains (which would not be possible in that "dual PA setup" right?) -

        I know that the "stereo vs. mono for live sound" is a topic that's been beaten to death :smiley-angry009:  ... but I DO hear a difference and if I have enough inputs to run in stereo, why not?


    • #5
      Gary... what no sand? I would keep the kick&bass outa those 12s. Aux feed those to the sub. No way around it it still too little rig for the gig. Maybe u could rent some subs

      Comment


      • GigMan
        GigMan commented
        Editing a comment

        Hey Kevin - :smiley-welcome:

        I will have ONE POWERED SUB - - are folks missing that part... ?? .png" alt=":smileysurprised:" title="Smiley Surprised" />

        I hope to invest in a pair of JBL PRX 618XLF's for my very own - maybe next year... I just got the MIxWiz3, so that's my "big" purchase for this year.  :manlol:

        And Kev, since you know the area -
        this is for a concert on the footbal field in Dover - I have heard The Kootz play there for the fireworks before - using only this one powered sub... it was ok, not CRANKIN' loud but not really underpowered either.

        But if you have powered subs available for rent - email me directly, what the hey...

        MORE POWER! :smiley-cool11:


      • GigMan
        GigMan commented
        Editing a comment

        Kevin T wrote:
        Gary... what no sand? I would keep the kick&bass outa those 12s. Aux feed those to the sub. No way around it it still too little rig for the gig. Maybe u could rent some subs

        When I Aux Feed the kick & bass to the subwoofer - how do I keep the crossover switch on the K12's - - in "Normal" position or "External Sub" position?


    • #6
      External xover position. Kik and bass get routed to both.
      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/FMIC/JAM Industries Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

      Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

      Comment


      • GigMan
        GigMan commented
        Editing a comment

        agedhorse wrote:
        External xover position. Kik and bass get routed to both.

        That's what I was originally thinking - route EVERYTHING thru the mains, use their built-in xovers, switch on "External Subwoofer" position. 

        Since I'm using TWO mains per side, do I keep switch on "ext. sub." on BOTH... ie - on all 4?

        Then pass signal from mains over to powered sub - which will have a Left and Right connection running to it, from each side of the mains setup.

        In this confg., I'd just control kick & bass gtr. with their individual channels - correct?  I'm not seeing where "Aux fed" comes into play here... ? :smileyembarrassed:


    • #7
      Gary call me I could supply u with 2

      Comment


      • #8
        2JBL dual 15 subs& qsc 2450 amp crossover and 100ft 16+4 snake
        oh hell I may as well run foh for you too

        Call me if interested
        KT

        Comment


        • #9
          Yup, which then leads down THAT path
          -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          Former product development engineer: Genz Benz, a KMC Music/FMIC/JAM Industries Company, continuing factory level product support and service for Genz Benz

          Currently product development engineer: Mesa Boogie

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