Members LameAim Posted March 8, 2006 Members Share Posted March 8, 2006 Just a survey. I continually toy with the idea of getting a little theory under my belt by picking up the piano. I know a lot of you here probably learned on a real piano with 88 weighted keys, but finding space for a piano around here is going to be a little impossible. Would you say weighted keys are a necessity? Can someone use a good synth-action board? Would 49 keys work or should someone have 61 or 76? What did you learn on? What would you recommend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jaytee Posted March 8, 2006 Members Share Posted March 8, 2006 Originally posted by LameAim Just a survey. I continually toy with the idea of getting a little theory under my belt by picking up the piano. I know a lot of you here probably learned on a real piano with 88 weighted keys, but finding space for a piano around here is going to be a little impossible. Would you say weighted keys are a necessity? Can someone use a good synth-action board? Would 49 keys work or should someone have 61 or 76? What did you learn on? What would you recommend? 76 eh? Going for the Yamaha CP35. Good choice. But seriously - it doesn't matter much. The more the merrier, I do say. 73 is a good starting number though. Yamaha offers a great beginner keyboard for about $300 - the DGX205 I think it is? Check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rylos Posted March 8, 2006 Members Share Posted March 8, 2006 All you need are the white keys. Sorry, couldn't resist. Make sure you get something that can mimic the dynamics of a piano. When I started piano lessons I tried using a DX7II, but it was hard to correlate the way it behaved (key velocity wise) with the way a piano acts. An accomplished player would be able to compensate, but when you're learning, you need something that acts like a piano as much as possible. I ended up using a kawai clunker, even though I didn't like it's sound or action very much. Given a real budget, I would have looked for something better, like something that was built to emulate a piano. At least I also had a piano available much of the time, so between the two of them I could get a fair amount of practice time. Try to spend some time at an actual piano, then try different keyboards to find out which one seems easiest for you to handle compared to the piano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hugo H Posted March 8, 2006 Members Share Posted March 8, 2006 The "key" question is whether you want to learn to play a piano or a synth. Synths using non-weighted keys are just not going to be anywhere near the same as playing a piano. The difference is in the feel of the keys, the touch. Choose your goal and then buy appropriately. If you want to learn to play an acoustic piano but can't fit one in, at least get weighted keys. Otherwise you won't develop the proper techniques and probably will end up frustrated when you try to play an acoustic piano. If your goal is simply to learn some theory or to get some synth sounds going, a non-weighted action's fine. And as far as number of keys, 49 would be perfectly ok to start with. Just get what you have room for. Personally, I have an 88 key grand, a 61 key synth, and a 32 key controller - the latter I only use one hand with. They're all good - just depends on what you're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted March 8, 2006 Members Share Posted March 8, 2006 Um, sorry, no - "whatever you have room for..." is NOT the correct answer. BAAAAAHHHHH!!! (that's the sound of Alec Trebec's loud "wrong answer" buzzer going off...). The answer is: "If you want to learn how to play a piano - then you need (da-da-da-daaaahhhh!!!!): a PIANO! It always cracks me up when this question gets asked. It's like someone saying, "I want to learn how to ride a motorcycle but all I have is this _____________ (insert - "moped," "bicycle," "unicycle," etc...) - However, maybe the question isn't really "What do I need to learn piano?" but rather, "What keyboard instrument (piano, digital piano, synth, etc...) will most effectively enable me to learn some theory?" ...in which case, I agree - get whatever you can and start hacking away at it. But don't delude yourself that you're learning "piano"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W.Kyle.C Posted March 8, 2006 Members Share Posted March 8, 2006 casio makes a 88 key keyboard with fully waited keys that shoudl fit in your apartment/house. the piano sound of the Yamaha is better but the casio does have a more realistic feel if you want to learn the piano.....i learned on a keyboard and know i compete in national competions and am going to audtion for scholarships at a University...heck the keyboard wasn't even 88 keys.....so a keyboard will definately work....you just have to adjust when you play a real piano......but if all you want is to learn theory, then a 66er will work fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted March 8, 2006 Members Share Posted March 8, 2006 The weighted key thing isnt really the big issue to me ,,,, I play oragan and piano .......Its could be compared to the difference between an electric and acoustic guitar. A little different touch and feel. The basics are pretty well the same. I have a 1923 upright piano, i have had a fender rhodes ,, have had a vox contential .... i have a cheap and i do mean cheap yamahaw and i am now shopping for a new generation keyboard. I find some weighted key unites a little heavier action than i like and some a little too tinker toy ..... i can play them all well after five minutes of honkin around on them ...... Now mind you i have been playing keyboards for well over 40 years ,,,,,, But i just dont see it as that big a deal .....If you are a guitar player ,, how long does it take you to pick up a different guitar and get the feel of it? Its the same with keyboards from my point of view. rat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W.Kyle.C Posted March 8, 2006 Members Share Posted March 8, 2006 The weighted key thing isnt really the big issue to me ,,,, I play oragan and piano .......Its could be compared to the difference between an electric and acoustic guitar. A little different touch and feel. The basics are pretty well the same. I have a 1923 upright piano, i have had a fender rhodes ,, have had a vox contential .... i have a cheap and i do mean cheap yamahaw and i am now shopping for a new generation keyboard. I find some weighted key unites a little heavier action than i like and some a little too tinker toy ..... i can play them all well after five minutes of honkin around on them ...... Now mind you i have been playing keyboards for well over 40 years ,,,,,, But i just dont see it as that big a deal .....If you are a guitar player ,, how long does it take you to pick up a different guitar and get the feel of it? Its the same with keyboards from my point of view. rat +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W.Kyle.C Posted March 8, 2006 Members Share Posted March 8, 2006 I disagree with Rhat in that both electric and acoustic guitars are incredible responsive to how you play whereas a keyboard without velocity sensitive keys is just pushing buttons on or off weighted keys are velocity sensitive keys are different aren't they? You can have an un-wheighted keyboard that is velocity sensitive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Outkaster Posted March 8, 2006 Members Share Posted March 8, 2006 A Piano...... learn on an acoustic one at all costs....that is all you need a {censored}in piano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W.Kyle.C Posted March 8, 2006 Members Share Posted March 8, 2006 I'm currently looking for a digital piano because I can't handle not playing anymore and my situation isn't great for trying to find an upright every time I move. I'm still searching and reading as many reviews on the GeneralMusic prp700/800 or Promega and Kawai ES4 as they seem to be the likely suspects If price isn't an issue the best keyboard right now is probably the yamaha motif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted March 8, 2006 Members Share Posted March 8, 2006 I disagree with Rhat in that both electric and acoustic guitars are incredible responsive to how you play whereas a keyboard without velocity sensitive keys is just pushing buttons on or off. I play both organ and piano ... so the weighted key thing isnt that big an issue to me ,,,,, I see your point ,,,, but electric guitars do play a little different than acoustic. Hell different electric guitars play different from each other ...... I have both electric and acoustic guitars..... I guess I dont get too hung up on weighted vs unweighted ,, i can tell you that the fender rhodes i had was a 88 keyed beast and had pretty heavy action .... hell ,, you adapt and play. the modern keyboard i have played are much better than the older stuff ...... I am shopping for one right now ,,, at this point i am not sure what i want .... Lots of things on the market ,, so i need to do alot of research and play alot of them before i pull the trigger and plunk my money down. As for the responsiveness of acoustic guitars ,,, i will agree with you ,,, but my custom dred does play different than my H535 and my H140 is a little different from the other two. Hell i have two custom dreds ,,, they both sound a little different and play a little different.... Nothing earth shaking ,,, but no two instruments are clones. rat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Outkaster Posted March 8, 2006 Members Share Posted March 8, 2006 Originally posted by GigMan Um, sorry, no - "whatever you have room for..." is NOT the correct answer. BAAAAAHHHHH!!! (that's the sound of Alec Trebec's loud "wrong answer" buzzer going off...). The answer is: "If you want to learn how to play a piano - then you need (da-da-da-daaaahhhh!!!!): a PIANO! It always cracks me up when this question gets asked. It's like someone saying, "I want to learn how to ride a motorcycle but all I have is this _____________ (insert - "moped," "bicycle," "unicycle," etc...) - However, maybe the question isn't really "What do I need to learn piano?" but rather, "What keyboard instrument (piano, digital piano, synth, etc...) will most effectively enable me to learn some theory?" ...in which case, I agree - get whatever you can and start hacking away at it. But don't delude yourself that you're learning "piano"... Exactly playing or learning on something else can cause serious damage if you are learning or wanting to be proficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted March 8, 2006 Members Share Posted March 8, 2006 Originally posted by Outkaster Exactly playing or learning on something else can cause serious damage if you are learning or wanting to be proficient. How many pianos have you moved ? Unless you are pretty settled down in life and a home .... a piano is more than most people can deal with. I am going to be moving to texas here in the next couple years ,,,, no way am i going to pay to move a piano ... I am basically just a rocker/ blues/ honky tonk junk yard dog keyboard guy ,,,,my piano is going to stay in the house when i sell it .... rat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jazzed Posted March 8, 2006 Members Share Posted March 8, 2006 I kind of agree with Gigman. If a used upright really is out of the question, you should still try and get 88 weighted keys. Doesn't have to be particularly expensive or very heavy. Casio Privia (PX110) or the Yamaha P70 come to mind. 49 keys or 61 keys are not going to be enough, and I would say an unweighted keyboard doesn't cut it. By the way, the S03 does NOT have weighted keys, which someone in this thread stated. They may be "semi-weighted"; that isn't the same thing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members elsongs Posted March 8, 2006 Members Share Posted March 8, 2006 One - so you can open up the lid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gunslinger69 Posted March 8, 2006 Members Share Posted March 8, 2006 I'm going to agree that weighted, velocity sensitive keys are essential, but you should be able to get by just fine with 61 keys - with most exercises and scales you'll practice, that should be fine. I'm not really sure how many keyboards fit this description, however, and I'm also not sure how great a savings you'll realize by getting a 61-key vs. 88. The weight penalty for the larger board is not great - maybe 15 lbs. Compact is nice, but I'd still go for the 88-key model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted March 9, 2006 Members Share Posted March 9, 2006 Originally posted by Gunslinger69 I'm going to agree that weighted, velocity sensitive keys are essential, but you should be able to get by just fine with 61 keys - with most exercises and scales you'll practice, that should be fine. Ummm... No. I also play guitar (a little bit) - I know I couldn't "get by" with 5 strings on the guitar, instead of 6... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Outkaster Posted March 9, 2006 Members Share Posted March 9, 2006 Originally posted by rhat How many pianos have you moved ? Unless you are pretty settled down in life and a home .... a piano is more than most people can deal with. I am going to be moving to texas here in the next couple years ,,,, no way am i going to pay to move a piano ... I am basically just a rocker/ blues/ honky tonk junk yard dog keyboard guy ,,,,my piano is going to stay in the house when i sell it .... rat That is not the point. Pianos, especially old uprights are offered free all the time. Learning on a keyboard does damage to your playing. Yes granted they are not portable but anyone learning on a keyboard is going to suffer serious limitations in the long run. Trust me on this one. It is easy to go to acoustic piano to keyboard. You have to get some roots in the basics to do anything well with your playing and involves learning an acoustic. Any classical, jazz pro player will tell you that.....does not matter how much the weighted boards get better it is not the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Prog Posted March 9, 2006 Members Share Posted March 9, 2006 Originally posted by W.Kyle.C fully waited keys that shoudl fit... casio ...know i compete in national competions ... Certainly for music, not writing English. When you apply for scholarships, make sure your letters are proof-read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted March 9, 2006 Members Share Posted March 9, 2006 Originally posted by Outkaster That is not the point. Pianos, especially old uprights are offered free all the time. Learning on a keyboard does damage to your playing. Yes granted they are not portable but anyone learning on a keyboard is going to suffer serious limitations in the long run. Trust me on this one. It is easy to go to acoustic piano to keyboard. You have to get some roots in the basics to do anything well with your playing and involves learning an acoustic. Any classical, jazz pro player will tell you that.....does not matter how much the weighted boards get better it is not the same thing. You are the expert mistro ..... I have grunted more than a couple pianos and organs...Given at least one away. sold another dirt cheap .. I have one right now that i just paid to get tuned thats out of tune again....and its gonna cost me another 75 bucks.... I have to pay to have one tuned for a jazz trio for my daughers wedding.... . I question if the average forumite is ever going to take keys to the level that you are ,,,,, there are some pretty decent weighted key stuff out there today ..... I am sure you can play circiles around me ..... I would guess for the typical forumite ,, a old upright piano would be about like owning an elephant ...... its great at home if you have a place to keep it ,,but its not exactly the kind of pet you want to take over to your buddies house...,, for a giggin band its worthless .....I understand your point of view....and i am sure have a very valid opinion .... i just question how practical it is for alot of people. Its a bit, like how practical is it to be a great sight reader in a rock and roll band. You are I are from two different planets ......and thats cool. I appreciate all that it takes to get to where you no doubt are on keyboards ......I will never in a million years get there ,,,,,but then i have no desire. In the word of an old keyboard salesman ,,, if you can hum you can play lol....... rat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LameAim Posted March 9, 2006 Author Members Share Posted March 9, 2006 Originally posted by HomeInMyShoes Ideally you'd get a piano, but you know what, that doesn't always fit into our lives at all times. Very true. I know what I'd ideally like to happen, but how often does an ideal situation happen for you? It's not a common occurrence for me and as a result I don't plan for it. Out of the two scenarios GigMan gave, I would place myself much closer to the second - I took an intro music theory class in the fall and found myself wanting some keys to continue learning on. Plus, I've got a friend who plays the piano and is willing to to help guide me on my journey. My concern isn't really weight per se (like, 40 pounds vs. 50 pounds). but space. I don't have a lot of it. Plus, anything I get will be moving with me out of state in a couple of years and even if I had the space, I'd rather not have to worry about getting an upright piano out of Alaska. Just judging from what I've read here over the years, I know there's nothing like the real thing. However, the real thing is not an option for me. Rather than leaving it at that and quitting, I'm interested in finding an alternative that will still move me in the right direction. How many of you here picked up your chops from a synth-action or weighted keyboard as opposed to a full-sized piano? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LameAim Posted March 9, 2006 Author Members Share Posted March 9, 2006 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MuzikB Posted March 9, 2006 Members Share Posted March 9, 2006 No less than 49. I tell that to the college students here all the time. Space is a factor in their dorm rooms and 49 keys provides enough room for 2 handed work. Anything less than 49 keys should be for high mobility and DJ's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wetwareinterface Posted March 9, 2006 Members Share Posted March 9, 2006 wow depends on what you intend to play on piano. most trance songs only need a one key piano. most piano music though is geared for a 49 key range. extreme examples of difficult classical / jazz pieces require 88 keys. so i say it really depends on what you intend to play as to what you need to have key count wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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