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Dang it! now HARRY FOX themselves are banning YOUTUBE videos!

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  • Dang it! now HARRY FOX themselves are banning YOUTUBE videos!

    I went today to try to download a video from YouTube: Vaughn Monroe's 1949 hit, "Ghost Riders In The Sky".





    To my disappointment, I got one of those error messages on YouTube, saying that the HARRY FOX AGENCY had banned this song from appearing on YouTube.



    To my way of thinking, this is even a more stringent ban than if record labels alone are banning YT vids; HARRY FOX is where songs themselves (in their most basic format-- melody, harmony and lyric) are copyrighted. In other words, not only is the specific recording of a song banned, but the actual song ITSELF is being banned (regardless of performer).



    Bummer. Your thoughts?
    Every paint-stroke takes you farther and farther away from your initial concept. And you have to be thankful for that. Wayne Thiebaud


    Friend me on FACEBOOK!

  • #2






    Quote Originally Posted by rasputin1963
    View Post

    In other words, not only is the specific recording of a song banned, but the actual song ITSELF is being banned (regardless of performer).




    As a test, I just downloaded Vaughn Monroe's version no problem with the Video Download Helper which is a free plugin for FireFox. I couldn't find the Harry Fox version on YT, but if you have a link I'll try it out.
    "If Obama wins a second term I will leave the forum". - Visconti

    Comment


    • #3






      Quote Originally Posted by rasputin1963
      View Post

      In other words, not only is the specific recording of a song banned, but the actual song ITSELF is being banned (regardless of performer).




      As a test, I just downloaded Vaughn Monroe's version no problem with the Video Download Helper which is a free plugin for FireFox. I couldn't find the Harry Fox version on YT, but if you have a link I'll try it out.
      "If Obama wins a second term I will leave the forum". - Visconti

      Comment


      • #4
        Actually Harry Fox doesn't "copyright" anything - they LICENSE things, but the copyright is automatic upon "creation" of the work, which is defined (at least in the USA) as the moment the work is affixed to a permanent media such as written down on manuscript paper, recorded, etc.



        Publishers (who in most cases actually own the copyrights for popular songs) sign agreements with Fox that allows Fox to take care of the licensing of the works - most commonly, alternative versions by other artists. Filing the copyright registration with the Library of Congress is typically handled by the writer and / or publisher.
        **********

        "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

        - George Carlin

        "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

        - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

        "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

        - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

        Comment


        • #5
          Actually Harry Fox doesn't "copyright" anything - they LICENSE things, but the copyright is automatic upon "creation" of the work, which is defined (at least in the USA) as the moment the work is affixed to a permanent media such as written down on manuscript paper, recorded, etc.



          Publishers (who in most cases actually own the copyrights for popular songs) sign agreements with Fox that allows Fox to take care of the licensing of the works - most commonly, alternative versions by other artists. Filing the copyright registration with the Library of Congress is typically handled by the writer and / or publisher.
          **********

          "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."

          - George Carlin

          "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."

          - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

          "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."

          - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

          Comment


          • #6






            Quote Originally Posted by Phil O'Keefe
            View Post

            Actually Harry Fox doesn't "copyright" anything - they LICENSE things.






            Thanks, Phil, for setting me straight here!
            Every paint-stroke takes you farther and farther away from your initial concept. And you have to be thankful for that. Wayne Thiebaud


            Friend me on FACEBOOK!

            Comment


            • #7






              Quote Originally Posted by Phil O'Keefe
              View Post

              Actually Harry Fox doesn't "copyright" anything - they LICENSE things.






              Thanks, Phil, for setting me straight here!
              Every paint-stroke takes you farther and farther away from your initial concept. And you have to be thankful for that. Wayne Thiebaud


              Friend me on FACEBOOK!

              Comment


              • #8
                Fox doesn't have an actual lock on that licensing; it's voluntarily entered into. They don't have any legal monopoly. It was founded in 1929 by the National Music Publishers Association. It has no statutory or governmental franchise.



                They made a lot of enemies last year when they started an initiative to remove PUBLIC DOMAIN works from Internet and other venues and began -- in the view of many in the intellectual property community -- abusing the safeguards built into YouTube and other media entities that allow 'pre-emptive' censorship by those claiming intellectual property rights -- even before those rights have been determined -- and in the case of at least a few cases involving Harry Fox Agency, where they clearly DID NOT have those rights -- because the works had long ago entered the public domain.



                Another corrupt music business institution.


                music and social stuff

                Comment


                • #9
                  Fox doesn't have an actual lock on that licensing; it's voluntarily entered into. They don't have any legal monopoly. It was founded in 1929 by the National Music Publishers Association. It has no statutory or governmental franchise.



                  They made a lot of enemies last year when they started an initiative to remove PUBLIC DOMAIN works from Internet and other venues and began -- in the view of many in the intellectual property community -- abusing the safeguards built into YouTube and other media entities that allow 'pre-emptive' censorship by those claiming intellectual property rights -- even before those rights have been determined -- and in the case of at least a few cases involving Harry Fox Agency, where they clearly DID NOT have those rights -- because the works had long ago entered the public domain.



                  Another corrupt music business institution.


                  music and social stuff

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Raz, I'm thinking you didn't try hard enough. I found a number of versions by Vaugn Monroe, including this (incredibly poorly transcribed 78 -- sounds like someone didn't realize you need a 3 mil stylus and preferably a proper cartridge -- this one was clearly stereo and profoundly ill-suited... but then, that's par for the course with the vinyl kiddies, God love 'em.) My old man had this record and I believe it's in my collection though I'd have to check. (Not all of his 78s made it through my childhood. As we all know, the 'unbreakable' record didn't arrive until vinyl, basically with the LP.)



                    I found a better version (below this one) clearly transcribed by someone with a clue... so skip this one (immediately below) unless you want a lesson on the dangers of embracing technologies one does not understand...



                    [very poorly transcribed using improper cartridge and stylus]




                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahUg8hSBy3U





                    [transcribed properly]




                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d_FeDuQ4ho


                    music and social stuff

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Raz, I'm thinking you didn't try hard enough. I found a number of versions by Vaugn Monroe, including this (incredibly poorly transcribed 78 -- sounds like someone didn't realize you need a 3 mil stylus and preferably a proper cartridge -- this one was clearly stereo and profoundly ill-suited... but then, that's par for the course with the vinyl kiddies, God love 'em.) My old man had this record and I believe it's in my collection though I'd have to check. (Not all of his 78s made it through my childhood. As we all know, the 'unbreakable' record didn't arrive until vinyl, basically with the LP.)



                      I found a better version (below this one) clearly transcribed by someone with a clue... so skip this one (immediately below) unless you want a lesson on the dangers of embracing technologies one does not understand...



                      [very poorly transcribed using improper cartridge and stylus]










                      [transcribed properly]







                      music and social stuff

                      Comment


                      • #12
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                        • #13
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