looking to add a top board to live rig for organ

My current set-up is an old Yamaha KX-88 MIDI controller which has teriffic realistic action - I like it better than the action on my Yamaha acoustic piano!! And I don't mind lugging it to gigs, although it weighs a good 70lbs!! But it really makes doing organ work tough, and I probably play organ or synth on more than 50% of our songs. Rock cover band.

My only sound module now is a Korg Triton Rack. The organs are actually pretty good on this thing, the pianos on the EXB expansion board are decent in the mix, but not great.

So I am not sure what strategy to follow in my quest.

Seems I could go pretty much 2 ways:

1. keep the KX-88 as my gig piano, pick up a Kurtz ME-1 for my rack for the piano sounds and use the Triton to drive a 61-key non weighted upper board.

2. pick up a used Kurtz or Yamaha 76 or 88 key keyboard with nice piano sounds for the piano board, then use the Triton to drive a 61-key non weighted upper board

or sort of a 3rd option I'm thinking about:

- sell the Triton, pick up a Motif rack for piano sounds - use the KX-88 board for piano, get a 61 key controller and a Voce or Hammond organ module for the organ stuff

Any comments or other ideas?

Keep the KX-88. Nothing else feels like it. Playing piano parts on any other keyboard just feels awkward. Pick up the Kurz for piano, or look at a used Alesis NanoPiano, decent piano for the price.

I would recommend the Motif Rack though, which has a nice accoustic piano in addition to lots of other bread-and-butter keyboard sounds, like electric pianos, clavinets, and I think the organs are decent (but I'm sure I'll be flamed for that.) With that, you can use the KX for piano, and a non-weighted controller keyboard for synth/organ parts, all through the Motif.

Not sure what your budget is - but I can highly recommend the Nord Electro II 73.

It is very light, has a great keyboard action for organ and sounds amazing - try one out if you can.

Another option would be to add a dedicated clonewheel as the top keyboard, and use it to trigger your Triton rack. If you can find one, the Roland VR-760 is a beast -- it has a very good B3 simulation, plus it includes passable piano, electric piano, and synth tones. And it can be expanded with two of their SRX boards. I got one last fall, and I LOVE it...

FWIW, I owned a Nord Electro 2 before that, but just never warmed up to it. Drawbars beat pushbuttons, IMO.

For playability: Korg CX3II. For B3 sound: Nord Electro II. For the ultimate live non-Leslie organ rig: Korg CX3II controlling Nord Electro II rack. But IF you can actually {censored}ing play- don't worry about this stoopid internet crap. Play wahtever pumps yer nads. As long as it isn't {censored}ing Alesis because Alesis sucks.

Or a MicroCork. Don't ever play a MicroCork, lest you be labled an undesirable.

Well - really I am much more of a piano player than a B3 player, but I'm learning some tricks as I go and sounding better as I learn what to do on the organ. I don't want to invest a ton in a top board right now - maybe if I really get into B3 playing I could upgrade later, but for now I don't feel too worthy of top equipment on that front. The other thing I was looking at was getting a used Hammond XM1 module and drawbar controller for $400-ish and then using a decent 61-key MIDI board to control it. That is probably the high end of what I would do.

Well - I've heard the Yamaha organ patches on several of their keyboards and it does not hold up to the sound from the Triton, so I am skeptical that I would be happy with those. Although it would be nice to be able to trigger 2 boards from 1 rack, the Triton can only trigger 1 board from what I understand - it can only do one sound at a time. I could be wrong about that, but another keyboard player I know told me that and I couldn't find anything in the manual about how to do it either, so if it can trigger 2 different boards with 2 different sounds at once I sure as hell can't figure out how!!

But I could probably pretty much trade my Triton for a Motif rack and use it for piano and synth sounds, and then pick up something else for the B3 - either the Hammond or the Nord, or ?? Lots of ways to cut this.

I will need to get a set-up that is relatively easy to use and switch between settings, so that is another consideration. For example if I keep the Triton I may want to use a piano sound from it on the KX-88, so it could not be dedicated to the top board. There are a couple really nice keyboard patches, like this really cool layered E-piano that works perfectly for a song we are just adding. But pretty sure I can figure out how to daisy chain everything to make that work..... maybe..... I'm no MIDI guru, I'm just a musician!!

The KX has a MIDI merge. Plug in another keyboard into the KX's MIDI IN, and it'll merge the incoming data with the KX's own before sending it out. Any capable controller board today should be able to do this, too, but a synth may not.

So hook up like this:

61-key controller (out)-->(in) KX88 (out)-->(in) Triton (thru)-->(in) Piano module

You might also consider the Roland VK-8M module. Similar to the XM1, but it's an all-in-one unit, as opposed to having the sound module and drawbars in separated units.

:cop::cop:

Sorry, but I've gotta call FAIL on the Yamaha organs.

If you are the kind of person that drinks wine from a box, then maybe OK.

Your thinking appears to be backwards. The Triton Rack does not "trigger" anything; instead, it is triggered by a MIDI controller, like your KX-88.

That said, you should be able to control the Triton Rack from two (or more) MIDI controllers by using the Triton's "Multi" mode. In that mode, the Triton responds to different patch and bank changes, etc., on different MIDI channels.

This sounds like the best bet, but I would hold onto the triton if you could. I have a similar setup for the exact same reasons. Playing organ on a weighted keyboard is way too hard on the hands especially if you grew up playing non-weighted, and in some cases spring loaded, keys. I have a Kurtz PC1x on the bottom for pianos, eps, and other stuff. Up top it is an old ensonig EPS, 61 keys, used as a controler, and some fx, into a Roland VK8-M. I love this set up except for one thing. I need to find a better place to set the VK8-M. Other than that, the sound, leslie fx with speed and brake, and the d-beam are fantastic. I play most of the stuff on the Kurtx, but when I need it, I just grab a handful of rich fat b3.

:mad:

Well - I guess I'm not exactly dying on the vine with the Triton piano patches - they are reasonable, just not as good as the PC-88X that I play in our rehearsal room. But in the mix the Triton EXB piano patches are more than adequate - even for recordings, I just don't like them as much for solo work. So probably for now I could keep the Triton for everything I am using it for now and add a dedicated organ for the top. It would be sweet to be able to grab a quick B3 chord or solo during a song I play mostly piano on. Example - Hard to Handle (Black Crows). And I would like to play with the drawbars to get just the sound I am looking for - especially for a song like Tom Petty's Refugee.

Or if I could find a good enough deal on a dedicated organ for up top that would also work, since I will end up spending $400-500 on a decent module plus $200 on a 61-key MIDI board, if I find a decent Roland, Hammond or Korg organ for $600-700 that might be a nicer option.

And btw - I sure didn't grow up playing on non weighted keys - I played only on real acoustic pianos for the most part until about 2 years ago when I started up with a band. I've played in bands for years as a drummer but this is my first time on keys. Very different, but I'm having a ton of fun with it and improving my playing very quickly along the way too. I am also having fun doing some lead vocals which is also new for me.

Ya - I said it backwards. I did not realize the Triton had a multi mode - I will look deeper at the manual. That is a tough read for a MIDI novice.... Whatever I end up with up top, I would like to be able to pull two patches from the Triton at once - there are a couple songs that would be really useful on that I can think of already. And I would like to send the synth patches up top to play on the non weighted board and reserve the KX88 pretty much only for piano and E-piano.

That's exactly what you should be able to do. In "Multi" mode, the Triton responds on up to 16 different MIDI channels. So you set your upper keyboard to send patch change and note information on one MIDI channel, the KX-88 to send on another MIDI channel and you should be in business.

One tricky thing is that the MIDI outs from the two controllers have to be merged before they're connected to the Triton's MIDI input. You can get a MIDI merge box, or you might check to see if the KX-88 merges MIDI signals it receives on its MIDI input with those it sends MIDI output.

It does.

I swear, the MicroKorg was placed there by the GIDEONS!!!

regarding the organ question, I think you'd be MUCH better off with a B3 clone than a Korg Triton or something along those lines. The waterfall keys on a B3 clone give you a MUCH better feel when playing organ and you have the ability to mold your own sound with drawbars. Once you start playing on true organ keys and learning the drawbars you'll know what i mean. There's no going back.

In terms of what clone to buy, the Roland VK series always sounds best BY FAR to my ears. Take a look on eBay or Craigslist to see if you can find a used one. Otherwise, the Nord Electro 2 is the only other B3 clone that sounds passable to me without using a leslie (or motion sound or any other type of rotating speaker).

my $0.02.....

Just to add more to the diversity of clonewheel opinions....

Well, Jim... go Korg CX3. To me it sounds most like a hammond. Leslie sim is outstanding, it has proper drawbars, and the keybed action is correct.

Roland VK-8 sounds too dark and the Electro sounds more like your grandmother's parlor Wurlitzer than a it does a Hammond.

...all in my humble opinion.

Thanks guys - There is a CX3 on ebay right now actually.... None local to me on CL tho.

What about the Hammond XK-1? The keyboard player for one of my favorite local bands - Silicon Valley House Rockers uses one as his top board and it sounds pretty good in their mix to me. He is a very talented player too. Great voice as well. And really fun band to watch - full horn section so they to Earth Wind and Fire and TOP stuff. Awesome.

+1 on the CX-3, being a proud owner of one myself.

The XK1 is a great sounding board. A good friend of mine gigs with one. The sound is fat and ballsy. Great keyboard action:thu:

I swear, the MicroKorg was placed there by the GIDEONS!!!

Jon where was that gig?