Who cares about the lyrics anyway?

From one of the Greatest Rock Songs Ever:

"She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah!

She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah!

She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah!"

Does anybody except other songwriters even care about the words to a pop song?

Why do we labor over the lyrics so much?

Because I don't seem to be able to write catchy melodies like Paul could?

Well... because as silly as She Loves You seems, it's actually kind of different. First off, think of the phrase, She loves you. That is a loaded statement. Combine that with music that hadn't been heard before and it comes off like a cannon.

She loves you!!! The "yeahs" are silly for sure but they rocked at the time and were never intended to be read. Pretty hip then.

Which brings to light what we miss so often as songwriters... communicating in the pop song medium. Not just as clever lyrics on a page but as sound waves flying through the air. Who cares? The person who's reacting. And if they don't care, they aren't reacting. Which is why you should care.

When a well-crafted song has well formulated phrases - particularly when metaphor-based, they serve as good as any melodic musical hook.....

"Blah-Blah-Blah

....and I don't want the world to see me

'cause I don't think that they'd understand

When everything's made to be broken

I just want you to know who I am"

Lee's got a great point... it's a deceptively simple -- yet somewhat nuanced message...

And then there are the verses -- not as catchy and more direct -- but hardly simplistic:

the lyrics are the only thing really worthy of discussion.

all the rest, is just wanking.

hook > lyrics, no doubt about it. Although of course it's not like they don't matter...

In most cases, great pop lyrics can be taken for granted, but terrible lyrics stick out. With a few inspired phrases aside, most great lyrics sound like everyday conversation, but also have perfect meter and phrasing while rhyming. That's quite an elaborate mousetrap to put together.

I've never ever listened to the words of that song.. only the understand and last line are familiar because it's the main hook.

Most of the rap songs today have great hooks but the lyrics are such crap. For many of us, hooks are great and all, but it will take more than just catchy lyrics to keep us listening to a song again and again...

Well apparently the radio dj's don't think this is the case and play soulja boy over and over and over and over :mad:

Unfortunately there's alot of people out there who really don't appreciate music and will settle for the most repetitive, unimaginative poo there is.

And thats my take on current mainstream music. Cynical huh?

hah! not cynical enough sounds accurate to me. Where i live has not one decent rock station. No alternative stuff, just hot 30 stuff or oldies. havnt listened to the radio for years.

hah! not cynical enough sounds accurate to me. Where i live has not one decent rock station. No alternative stuff, just hot 30 stuff or oldies. havnt listened to the radio for years.

New rock radio... you aren't missing much!

"'Cause we all just wanna be big rockstars

And live in hilltop houses driving fifteen cars

The girls come easy and the drugs come cheap

We'll all stay skinny 'cause we just won't eat

And we'll hang out in the coolest bars

In the VIP with the movie stars

Every good gold digger's

Gonna wind up there

Every Playboy bunny

With her bleach blonde hair

And well...

Hey, hey, I wanna be a rockstar"

Wow I hate Nickelback so much.....

Oh yea thats just hot 30 rock stuff. but there is still good new rock out there.

strange as it sounds..... i for 12 years i didnt really listen to music, if i did all i listened too was classical music, opera, and some 70s folky stuff (cat stevens, america), hated all modern music and radio.

Then one day i heard nickelback's 'hero', and i loved it. and thats got me into mainstream music, after only 6 months i was sick of radio music as boring and crap, and started exploring every type of rock and music i could.

So yea, i hate nickelback now, but still... haha that one is song is what got me interested in music.

Unless the lyrics are really annoying, banal or otherwise call attention to their lameness, I mostly ignore lyrics. I don't know the lyrics to some of my favorite songs. I'm drawn to music, not words. They could be singing in a language I don't understand - if the music is compelling that's all that matters to me.

I remember when I was a teenager I would occasionally read music reviews in magazines and newspapers and I would always run across critiques where the reviewer did nothing but analyze the lyrics of an album. No attempt to describe the music. In some cases I would have no idea of the style of music after reading the review...that's all I really wanted to know: what does it sound like? Generally I think music journalists have over-inflated the importance of lyrics, mostly because they're aspiring writers who are really only interested in writing.

Switching hats to songwriter-mode, I think you should give some thought to your lyrics. At the very least, the words should "sing well" over your melody. It's your job to control your end product even if you decide your end product will be "I am the eggman, goo goo ga joob".

Thats pretty much it. I'm pretty much the same. To be fairly honest I'll admit that the first time I came here I was surprised at the amount of people posting "songs" that were just lyrics... Because i've got absolutely no concept of songwriting as a purely literary thing.

And don't get me wrong, I was considered the best poetry writer during highschool in the advanced english class and was recommended to study english lit etc at uni given I was supposedly already writing at a university level. I'm not arguing from a position of ignorance. Or even one of shortcutting.. I don't put too much weight on lyrics relative to hooks and melody, but they're still something I agonise over.. they're probably the thing I most worry about sounding lame.

But it's a personal thing too. I'm almost positive I would find banal most lyrics that people here would post as examples of good lyrics.... hell my lyrics are crap and banal (I almost like writing country music just because there's no pressure to be anything other than simple and earnest).

And plenty of the bands I love have relatively nonsensical lyrics.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that vocals are merely a melody instrument... I believe it's a tad more than that... and you loose a certain intimacy and instant attention but the lyrics don't matter when I listen to sigur ros, edith piaf, not from there etc. In their foreign or semi foreign lyrics.

No unintelligible lyrics held Rammstein or Deep Forest albums back that much.. hell it probably helped Rammstein

In keeping with the thread starter however, I do consider Mike Patton as a decent lyricist. Him screaming "Don't look look at me i'm ugly in the morning" is probably in the top ten one liners in a song

Also remember that some genres are more lyric-centric than others. For example, if we're talking country music here, than you can bet that there is a helluva lot of people who care about the lyrics. (And not to diss country music too much, but let's be honest, there's really not much interesting happening besides the lyrics.) Rock music, on the other hand, can get away with some pretty blah lyrics. It's the icing on the cake, and even that might be giving it too much credit. But that's coming from someone who always scrapes the icing off the top of the cake before eating it, .

My old girlfriend didn't like a lot of the music I listen to because "half of the time you can't even hear what they're singing!" I never understood why that mattered, but it just goes to show that it matters to some people.

Lyrics matter the way they hit you when you're not looking. You don't follow lyrics. You listen to music. And if a snip of words combine with a harmonic element and rhythm and you feel something beyond a Cm and a swamp goove... well, then lyrics matter.

I AM IRON MAN!

Bloody hell dude. Who the f$%^ is Iron Man?!?!? Rad!!!

...and I'll be there yeah, yeah, yeah.... YOU'VE GOT A FRIEND

And your mind wanders to the time your buddy saved your ass when you were wasted in high school. Saved your ass big. I loved that guy. And... you weren't even listening to the lyrics.

AND AS WE WIND ON DOWN THE ROAD!!!!

And you wind on down the road after flitering along with wooden recorders and finger picking. And Jimmy freakin' SOARS on down the road.

AHHHHH.... LOOK AT ALL THE LONELY PEOPLE.

Indeed. Look at them. All around me. Then you're taken away to a world of a small string ensemble and pop group and you're not listening to the words but you feel... loneliness. And it's kind of sad. Who is this Elenore Rigby chick anyway and why is she so dreary. And you're not listening to the words.

GOD SAVE THE QUEEN!!!! SHE AIN'T NO HUMAN BEING!!!

WE MEAN IT MAN!!!

I'm not sure what they mean but I agree... the do mean it. And it's kinda sarcastic. They don't like England I guess but they're from there. This tune ROCKS!!!

Lyrics don't matter.

Lee Knight, i agree, very good post

...I think the lyric is mostly for the songwriter to enjoy performing the song. I am able to put a lot more energy into performing a song when I have written a witty or solid lyric because when I sing it, it gives me feeling.

Reading/listening to other's lyrics lets me know what kind of person they are, sometimes the lyrics tell a story, but that is rare.

And who did Jimi Hendrix idolize? John Lee Hooker? Muddy Waters? Charlie Parker? Nope...

To Jimi, Bob Dylan was a god. Apparently, all you had to do was say "Dylan" and he'd run cross the room ready to engage you in conversation about his idol. Dylan.

The lyrics in All Along the Watchtower don't matter. Everybody just wants to hear him solo. Well... I don't know. When I hear Jimi sing "said the joker to the thief..." it lights me up as much as his guitar work in the tune. And his solo work wouldn't have the resonance without his clear dedication to the poetry of that tune.

But lyrics don't matter.

Wow.. I SO disagree with you. All Along the Watchtower is telling a story in 3 verses. Dylan is the Joker.

And talking about the lyric from "Stairway"?... It's great storytelling.

Lyrics do matter folks.... and very much so.

Not really, but clearly it's possible to attract at least some fans of your crappy music if you have great lyrics. Dylan is probably the best example, and there are all kinds of indie artists who really don't have anything going for them other than the lyrics.

Personally I don't get it. Nobody, and I mean nobody (not even my personal favorite lyricist Adam Duritz) writes song lyrics that even come close to the poetry written by true masters like T.S. Eliot, Walt Whitman, etc.

Sarcasm, my friend. I'm poking fun at the concept that "lyrics don't matter". Sorry if my attempt at humor backfired...

I think they matter very much.

Correctamundo -

Maybe because of a lack of interest from the audience in anything complex or symbolic - stewpid iz kewl!

Maybe because most classic poets got to sit and write as much as they could - no need to practice their instrument, keep a band together, get gigs, talk to managers, etc.

Maybe because nobody knows the Classics anymore. Whitman, doesn't he make candy? Those guys modeled their art on the geniuses who came before them. So do we - we imitate lyrics like "Hanky Panky" or "Back Tha Ass Up".

Our standards aren't just low, they're subterranean!

Maybe because nobody tries, or nobody hears those artists who do.

Maybe because we jus sux nowadays....

I'd say lyrics are important to my appreciation of a song... but I don't always put the same kind of effort in parsing and puzzling them out for each artist. The best of Waits, Dylan, Bowie, Van Morrison, Leonard Cohen, Prine -- and a whole lot of others -- seem to merit a different kind of attention than the lyrics of someone like, say, the Grassroots or Creedence Clearwater They can all be great -- but the resonances are different.

And sometimes a great musical momentum can hook up with a great phrase or two and perhaps some sonic indistinctness to form a kind of preter-verbal synergism (if I can be forgiven that construction), something like the Bee Gee's "Night Fever." (I was really crushed when I read the actual lyrics. The vague notion I had of what they were was so far superior.)

I've heard that there are two types of music listeners. Music people and word people. I think the majority of them are the former. I have a degree in English, and I don't usually notice lyrics on the first listen. Or the second listen. Or the third listen. It takes me a while to become familiar enough with a song before I start to even notice the lyrics (unless I deliberately make myself pay attention, and even then it's hard). The music is almost always what draws me in first.

I do think lyrics matter. Just not as much as some people would like to believe. Country music probably being the exception.

Me too. I suppose most of the effort I put into my lyrics is actually just an attempt not to sound lame...haha...I do think some songwriters can get away with moderately crappy lyrics, or cliches, IF they are very good performers (note my capatilization). A song is often only as good as it's performance, and much of the strength of a lyric lies in the delivery. If a singer can't sing it with conviction, a weak lyric is going to stick out like a sore thumb.

But I think a songwriter can get away with a lot more in the lyric department, provided it's wrapped up in a nice attractive package with catchy hooks and instrumentation, and a great performer to sing it. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen very often. Those of us who aren't stellar performers will probably have to settle for just trying to write good songs.