Five Grumpy Men

Here's one that's been percolating for a while. I've reached the point where I can't trust my own opinion about it, so I'm looking for yours.

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=10756264

Two questions I'd like to address:

1) Standard songwriting mechanics - Does the 2-chord vamp work? The guitar fills? Song structure? Do the lyrics flow, make sense, paint a vivid picture without being too direct, etc.? I've italicized some words and phrases that I'm not crazy about.

2) The larger subject matter question - Does anybody want to hear an angry, straightforward political protest song? If you don't, can you imagine anyone else getting into it? I can't decide whether I'm communicating anything worthwhile or just venting.

This was a really quick demo - my apologies for the shaky tempo and flubbed guitar fills.

Here are the lyrics:

Five grumpy men

Made a brand new law

To help the unaccountables take more from us all

And our freedom train hit the wall

Real hard

Yes our freedom train hit the wall

Now corporations are people, but they never go to jail

The judge fines the victims, then he makes them pay the bail

And it seems we're about to fail

Ourselves

Yes, it seems we're about to fail

All attempts to check the plutocrats

Prompt cries about a class war

No one seems to notice that they started it

By trickling down our necks and then expecting us to say, "Thank you!"

Our labor made all of their capital, now they're gonna squeeze us for more

The transfer of power

Now is nearly complete

The anointed ones devour

More than they ever could eat

It's time to storm the tower or make peace with our defeat

No peace with this defeat

No peace with this defeat

No peace with this defeat

The good: there's energy in the song & delivery; and while the playing is simple - it's clean. There's skill behind the execution.

The bad: Not pleasant to listen to. If I were in a room and someone started playing this; I'd want to leave the room. It's just grating and loud and repetitive. I haven't listened to any of your other stuff. But I'd ease up, maybe. Don't have to force it so hard. You are obviously skilled - but your style or inspiration has you trying for some over the top kind of delivery. That might work if you had vocal chops to outshine the clanging of your instrument. But it doesn't seem that you do - So I'd go with a softer approach on the instrument, you obviously have the dexterity. And use what you have vocally in a different way - you can convey your conviction in other ways than trying to be loud.

Thanks, guys. So, here's what I'm hearing in your comments. 'Stunted melody' and 'repetitive' tells me that the simplicity I was shooting for isn't working. Words like 'bitter pill' and 'grating and loud' tell me that the angry thing isn't working. Since simple and angry is pretty much all this song is about, it sounds like this one needs to head for the trash heap.

I wouldn't be that hasty.........I kind of like it.

I'm hearing a little Jethro Tull thing here.

Agreed. If it were back by some percussion and a constant bass (thus dimishing the staccato feel of the guitar) it would be a whole lot more pleasant to listen to. I do think you might want to work on the vocals, but as songwriters most of us aren't the most accomplished singers.

You've got some good lines. I really like the opening stuff about the 5 grumpy men. But then the lyric veers into stuff that's too generic and not personal or visceral enough. For instance, plutocrats is a great word to use in an online rant or a printed diatribe, but if you changed it to "guys in business suits," though cliched, it would work better. In other words, try to aim for specificity (5 grumpy men, makes them pay the bail, trickling down our necks*) and try to avoid generalities (plutocrats, class war, etc.)

LCK

*I'm not crazy about that line, but at least it's specific!

I'm thinking a more polished version with a toned down vocal could sound like this:

[video=youtube;eO-W289cEuk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO-W289cEuk

Thanks, Lenny, Owslek, Lee, Pitar, and Matximus. You've given me more to think about. I know this sort of angry, depressing song isn't going to appeal to a lot of people, but your suggestions might help it appeal to some. Vocals are always a challenge; I can carry a tune, but in a low, growly register that isn't often used in popular music styles (unless you count those god-awful vomit-metal vocals). The involuntary Merle Haggard twang doesn't help.

So, perhaps there is something worth saving here. Definitely it would involve working on juicing up the melody, toning down the overall attack, and addressing some weak spots in the lyrics.

LCK,

I agree about the dull, general nature of some of the lyrics. I'm thinking of changing the first line of the 'plutocrats' bridge part thus:

All attempts to pin the gray suits

Prompt cries about a class war

No one seems to notice that they started it

By trickling down our necks and then expecting us to say, "Thank you!"

*Our labor made all of their capital, now they're gonna squeeze us for more*

I hear what you're saying about the term 'class war,' but I felt like I had to use it because that is the accusation that gets flung every time someone even hints at the slightest curbs on corporate misbehavior. And I can see how the 'trickling' line can sound a little creepy, but I really like it because I think it is the perfect description of how supply-side, trickle-down economics really work. What I really don't like about that whole section is the last line about labor and capital. I need to find a way to get that basic idea across without sounding like an AFL-CIO slogan.

Right. And it's not an easy thing to accomplish. Woody Guthrie had a real knack for this sort of thing, and he's a hard guy to live up to. I could be wrong, but I think one thing that made a lot of his songs successful was his sense of humor.

LCK

Agitprop (or agitpop as some wag back in the late 70s called it, I seem to recall) can be very difficult to get right, in such a way that it would be entertaining or moving even if the audience didn't know about the background and politics of the situation.

You've got a kind of classic folkie Jeremiah thing going on, tone-wise, the insistent riffing on the guitar seems somehow to recall (at a distance and at a slant) early Dylan, the dark edge of your voice telegraphs that you mean business (although the range sounds a bit uncomfortable for your voice -- as though you were putting in a lot of effort to sound stentorian).

But... when we get down to particulars, it all feels somehow simultaneously too on the nose -- and too vague. You're telling us these black-robed minions of the plutocrats (to momentarily take up your approach) are bad guys but, we don't really get much in the way of concrete examples/evidence aside from the reference to corporations-as-'people' and the suggestion that the judges fine the victims and then make them pay bail. (Wouldn't that be the other way around? Or wouldn't they forfeit bail in lieu of fine? Or...?)

The song is talking about something -- but, as a listener, I want the song to make it real to me, to make me feel the sense of being used and powerless when those whose role is intended, at least in part, to be as advocates for justice are instead (according to this song's apparent view) serving as shills for the powers that be and keeping power out of the hands of the citizens. I want to feel that injustice because the song makes it real. And that's not really happening yet...

I like the riff. I like the feel of the vocal. I like the title Five Grumpy Men.

It's like a political cartoon. You're poking fun at a caricature of Uncle Sam or Teddy Roosevelt's gapped teeth or Andrew Carnegie's multitude of greenbacks falling from steel girders in the sky. Or modern day Wall Street and its inbreeding with Washington.

Grumpy is a caricature. It's funny and kinda juvenile and you're poking your finger in society's chest. In the fine tradition of political cartoons.

The problem for me is then, the song takes itself too seriously. And the reason political cartoons are so powerful is the insightful yet childlike way they go about pointing the finger.

I'd try to have more fun with it.

Well, I liked it, although I think that it needs to be refined. It reminded me of a very rough version of Led Zeppelin's "Hangman."

If you soften the hardhitting guitar, the lyrics will come through, and they are the purpose of the song. It's a song with a message. The guitar stops the listener from hearing the message. It's like when a movie soundtrack is so in-your-face that you listen to the music and lose the movie.

Wow, lots to think about. I appreciate all the great feedback.

Yep, that is definitely my struggle with this sort of song - how to get that point across without writing an essay. The five grumpy men have names, but naming them in the song just won't do. So, I've got to explain something about their brand new law without just laying it all out there. I'm thinking of scrapping the last verse, which sort of fell flat as a summation of the song, and replacing it with something that adds just a few more tidbits to the first verse. The structure of the verse is pretty short, though, so it's going to be tough to get much real detail in. The bridge also needs to be rewritten to something less slogan-y.

I wasn't really going for humor, and I don't think I want to take it in that direction. Makes me wonder about some of my word choices, though. I'll have to stew on this one a bit.

This seems to be a common theme in several comments. I'm working on a new arrangement that has fingerpicked guitar, one more chord, and a couple of extra notes in the melody. A little more blues despair and a little less punk rock rage. My fingers aren't quite up to the task yet, though, so it may take some time to get a revised version posted.

In the meantime, here are some of the lyric changes I'm working on.

Revised first verse:

Five grumpy men made a brand new law

To help the unaccountables take more from us all (i'm search for a replacement word for unaccountables)

And they're building up a great, big wall

Gonna kick you out

Yes, they're building up a great, big wall

Beginning of a revised bridge:

Don't you try to speak up, 'cause you know they're gonna shut you down

(that's all I've got so far)

New last verse (not quite complete yet):

When are you people gonna realize they're stealing you blind

Gonna take it all

I got to know are you gonna wake up in time

They're shoving (or giving?) lots of money, don't you know what they're trying to buy

Thanks to all. More later.

This reminds me of a Russian proverb, "the nail that sticks up gets hammered down". Might try to work that in there somewhere...

That's a tough one. Unaccountables:

the irresponsible

the rich and frivilous

the wayward rich

chewing more than they swallow

dogs in the manger

opportunists

selfish as gravity

I finally got the fingerpicked arrangement worked up to where I can play it through without totally falling apart. Better? Worse? Suggestions?

[video=youtube;TFZ_oNVERUI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFZ_oNVERUI&feature=player_detailpage

Revised lyrics:

Five grumpy men made a brand new law

To help the unaccountables take more from us all

And they're building up a great big wall

(Gonna kick you out)

Yes, they're building up a great big wall

Now corporations are people, but they never go to jail

The judge fines the victims and makes them pay the bail

And it seems we're about to fail

(Ourselves)

Yes, it seems we're about to fail

Don't you try to stand up, cause you know they're gonna beat you down

(Gotta break your spine)

If you make any noise, they'll just look down their noses and frown

(Can't stand to hear you whine)

Yeah, they bitch about a class war and think they sound so profound

(Just get back in line)

When are you people gonna realize they're stealing you blind

(Gonna take it all)

I got to know, are you gonna wake up in time?

They're giving lots of money, what will they buy?

Corporation nation

Corporation nation

Five grumpy men

That's all it takes to make a corporation nation

I like the way the melody and feel highlight the lyric more on this new one. Nice.

I think it's a good composition. But the playing strikes me as well but over-forced. Maybe ease up a little. There's too much tension going into the playing. It's a mid-tempo to slow kinda song, but the player is chopping away like its a rockabilly or punk burner. I'm not sure why. The mic will pick up the beautiful sound of the acoustic no matter how lightly you play.

THe singer sounds like they're trying to talk - but not yell - over a hammer.

The music has bite and the lyrics are scathing of a corrupt social system. You just can't use a word like 'grumpy' in this context.

My wife can be grumpy for a while in the morning. People use the word, 'grumpy' endearingly a lot of the time.

The people you are writing about are out and out conscienceless predators.

So unless the lyric continued with some tongue in cheek phrases as social satire with a touch of humour, I think 'grumpy' is a darling to be murdered.

Yes, I do struggle with tension in my playing. It's sort of an involuntary thing.

I had the same thought after Lee's comment about grumpy being a humourous word. I struggled to find something else, even scoured the thesaurus, but could only come up with dull words like "greedy" and "evil." Any suggestions? BTW, The Conscienceless Predators would be a great name for a punk band.

Maybe just stick with the bite and say it how it is. Possibles :

five foul men

five base men

five shameless men

five shady men

five sleazy men

if you can't beat em, why not just join em?

I'm afraid I'm not wealthy enough (not to mention ruthless enough).