Why is standard tuning too standard?

[Obelisk]

Hi, I've been playing ten years and I just don't get why people want to downtune. To my ears it just sounds muddy and isn't clear enough and is just a useless idea. Since most metal bands started to do it because it was "heavier" and now lighter bands adopt it to stick with the trends and try to be heavy too. What exactly is wrong with standard tuning? It cuts through well and with the right setup it is just as full and "heavy" sounding as low tuning yet it retains clarity better. The lower registry's were for the bass bass and to maintain low end and the guitars are the midrange which can be switched from times for cool effects but you get the idea. I just don't see why having big flopping strings makes the guitar sound better. I've been jamming with a friend who likes it for the sustain but the feel is horrible and I can barely make out the notes. I realize that most of the bands who cut through with it compensate with a ridiculous amount of mids and treble but then it still sounds confused and bad. Say you use heavier gauge strings, well it will still cut the clarity and you either compensate with mids or will be loss to the low frequencies. Let me know your ideas about this and please don't hold back. If you think detuning is the only way, say so and explain why you feel that way. I mean, I love Carcass, Behemoth, Vehemence and a lot of other bands who detune but I would've prefered standard or at least D standard.

[ugameus]

I totally agree.

[Caleb B]

Be more specific when you say down tune. That could be anything from drop D to drop A. Imo drop D is mainly used to make power chords more accessible, not for a deeper sound. I'll agree the drop A is maybe a bit muddy if you're just hammering the open e and a palm muted or whatever, but B and C can sound just as clear as standard, it depends on the equipment. And I think some people do it based on the vocalist's pitch, kind of like a capo is used for higher pitched vocals sometimes. If you're saying that anything other than standard sounds bad though, you don't listen to the right stuff.

 

"What exactly is wrong with standard tuning? It cuts through well and with the right setup it is just as full and "heavy" sounding as low tuning yet it retains clarity better."

 

What? It's not physically possible to sound as heavy as drop c, b, or a with standard tunings. I don't know what your definition of heavy is. Example:

 

[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

 

That is "heavy." You cannot get that sound with standard, and to my ear it sounds pretty clear, no muddiness there. Now I'm 100% sure that's not your kind of music, but I'm just showing you what heavy is. I'm pretty sure that is drop A.

 

Now Drop C:

 

[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

 

Very clear aside from the bad quality version of it (good quality one has embedding disabled), and that isn't straight breakdowns like the previous song.

[V-man]

I find Drop "X" a novelty that may be subject to your criticisms due to its percussive nature. Dropping to Eb OTOH, Brings a darker evil side to 440. Nothing against standard tuning, but there is a time and a place for other tunings.

[CTBthefourth]

I like to drop tune because sometimes that is what is called for in the song. If you're tuned to standard E, you can't chug on a low D, since it's not there.

 

Also, I prefer to play in C standard, even though my band plays in D standard. We play in D standard because it doesn't sound as happy as E, and also helps with the vocalist's range.

 

I've tried to convince the band to tune one step lower, or even drop C for certain songs, but it looks like we're stuck in D standard. Drop C makes for easier low C pedal tones. Sometimes you have to down tune to get a note you need.

[PigWings_v2.0]

Sometime's your singer's range just isn't high enough and you have to downtune.

 

Not all alternate tunings are just downtuning either. What about open tunings or stuff like the weird c tuning on Bron-Yr-Aur.

 

Sometime's though it's just the style and downtuning fits in the situation.

[GibsonVMan]

It's all a matter of taste. I prefer the darker sound so I like to tune down.

There are some bands that sound very muddy when tuning low..but I believe thats it's either sloppy playing or not the right equipment for the job. You need a good set of pickups, an amp and good speakers that will take the bottom end- along with good picking technique. Dont drop the mids..it will make you sound like shi* and you wont cut through anything.

[CTBthefourth]

I forgot to add that when I play in D standard, my LP is strung up 11-48 Power Slinky, and in C standard I play 11-54 Beefy Slinky. I'll use 10-46 Slinky for standard tuning. I would imagine using 10's and tuning a couple steps down would make the sound turn to mush. I string my acoustic 12-56 and tune to D standard - sounds powerful.

[Obelisk]

Cool, a lot of responses real quick. Sorry I wasn't clear before but what I meant by heavy is as far as fullness and bass.

 

A lot of people tell me this bull{censored} that you can't get the bass that low tunings put out. There is something called eq's I have a Marshall bichorus ss head and it is almost a {censored}ing bass amp. I can flub out my 4x12 mesa cab with it straight.

 

I never said downtuning is wrong, I just want to know why it seems like the cool thing to do now. I mean {censored}ing nu metal started the trend and now pop bands use it. I liked the Soundgarden approach where they tuned a string to hit a note they wanted or to have a note ring open.

 

I totally agree about having the right setup but 8-string guitars?!? Come on, it is like some kind of masculinity contest when we all know it comes down to the music but if you can't play, use misdirection like tricks and trends.

 

I mentioned I liked bands who detuned but I hear that low thwamp and there just isn't much articulation that comes through with that. I saw the Carcass tour and all these core bands were playing {censored} so low and didn't know one song from another.

 

I think it is cool to use to get a certain sound at times but most bands use it as a one-trick-pony.

 

Eb seems alright maybe, drop D isn't for me and I might be flexible to drop D if I ever joined a band who really twisted my arm.

[lndianScout]

our standard tuning is Eb..

 

much easier on our singer..

 

drop D for some songs, but mainly just Eb..

[FalseRevRG]

If it sounds muddy, you're doing it wrong.

[Obelisk]

I've heard about the Eb thing a lot. It makes sense, I guess I was mainly attacking the people who downtuning to follow the trend or who think it's heavier just because of the deepness or huge strings. I have to say the whole floppy string thing is really suited to the Zakk Wylde and shredder styles.

 

I could never figure out how he made those ridiculous vibratos until I found out he had a fairly loose string tension. You would {censored}ing warp your neck and break strings and above all else have the strength of a gorilla to vibrato tense strings.

[Boomhead8486]

Heavier gauge strings make a difference along with the whole guitar/amp/EQ setup as a whole.

 

I myself am stuck in B standard. For me it seems like anything lower than that is not really necessary and {censored} starts getting muddy.

[joseflovesyou]

You seem to not understand that there are different notes. Turning the bass up on you amp is not going to make the open string lower, like a dropped tuning would...

[FalseRevRG]

Turning up the bass is NOT the way to go with low tunings. I play a 7 in standard tuning (BEADGBE) in my band, and I have the bass knob on my amp at around 3. Guess what? You can actually hear the low notes as notes, and they still sound pretty damn good.

[Obelisk]

I understand that, I just want to hear people's opinions about it. My friend who uses down tunings likes the sustain and the fact that it extends the guitar's scale. I guess anything to get it closer to a piano so more classical and wider ranges can be reached. There are times I feel like I want to resolve a melody lower or walk down a step lower hear and there but not enough to change tunings yet.

 

For the record, I didn't start this thread to make anyone mad. Keep the comments coming.

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Hi, I've been playing ten years and I just don't get why people want to downtune. To my ears it just sounds muddy and isn't clear enough and is just a useless idea. Since most metal bands started to do it because it was "heavier" and now lighter bands adopt it to stick with the trends and try to be heavy too. What exactly is wrong with standard tuning? It cuts through well and with the right setup it is just as full and "heavy" sounding as low tuning yet it retains clarity better. The lower registry's were for the bass bass and to maintain low end and the guitars are the midrange which can be switched from times for cool effects but you get the idea. I just don't see why having big flopping strings makes the guitar sound better. I've been jamming with a friend who likes it for the sustain but the feel is horrible and I can barely make out the notes. I realize that most of the bands who cut through with it compensate with a ridiculous amount of mids and treble but then it still sounds confused and bad. Say you use heavier gauge strings, well it will still cut the clarity and you either compensate with mids or will be loss to the low frequencies. Let me know your ideas about this and please don't hold back. If you think detuning is the only way, say so and explain why you feel that way. I mean, I love Carcass, Behemoth, Vehemence and a lot of other bands who detune but I would've prefered standard or at least D standard.

 

Hank Williams

 

[Bedlum Bednarik]

Iommi is still the best as far as down tuned stuff goes. I love the whole heavier string BS you hear sometimes. This guy was down to C standard back then with extremly light strings.

[SirJackdeFuzz]

This, to ME is fullness in the bass department !!!

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWgeCurEypU&feature=related

 

 

YMMV

[mnhhngbfs]

 

Iommi is still the best as far as down tuned stuff goes. I love the whole heavier string BS you hear sometimes. This guy was down to C standard back then with extremly light strings.

 

Iommi tuned to C# standard.....a step and a half down. not two whole steps down.

And if we're bringing up Iommi, I think he sounds best on the first album and paranoid, which were recorded in standard E.

[curseoftruth]

This thread is so fail. Down tuning isn't trendy and has been going on for YEARS and YEARS. It really is just alternate tuning to standard. Kyuss was going it on a regular basis well before nu-metal in the 90s. Many of the grunge bands did it in the early 90s. Sabbath, Saint Vitus, etc have been doing through the 60s, 70s, and 80s. Drop tuning, again an alternate tuning. My band has half dropped tuned (drop c) and half regular tuned (straight D). Here is why we don't play in your Standard 440 -- IT PROVIDES CREATIVE DIVERSITY you dumb ass. Our singers range is also in that tuning. And I can tell you, our songs don't sound nearly as good or have as much balls in a regular E tuning. Because YOU don't get it (just like other in this ridiculous forum don't get 100-watt amps, another fail thead) doesn't mean its viable. Doom and stoner rock have a heaviness to them unlike other forms of metal. Its slower, darker tones, and just heavier -- meaning it sounds a {censored} load better in alternate tunings.

 

 

Iommi tuned to C# standard.....a step and a half down. not two whole steps down. And if we're bringing up Iommi, I think he sounds best on the first album and paranoid, which were recorded in standard E.

 

 

And he sounds best on Masters of Reality - which is he started down tuning. But he does sound great on the first two albums. Actually, his best tone and the bands best production was on Sabbath Bloody Sabbath.

[whiteyanderson]

here you have this wonderful instrument that can accomodate all these unique tunings. try taking advantage of it. you might be surprised.

[Obelisk]

You obviously didn't read where I said I was just asking opinions. Some people might play doom in standard tuning, who knows. I am well aware of the 60's and 70's bands and the old baritone jazz guitars. I stated that it seemed like the trend picked up around as you said the early 90's. Sure Morbid Angel, Carcass and other extreme metal bands were doing it before most metal bands in the 80's but once the "nu-metal" scene hit, there was no alternative. I don't prefer it mainly because it is not my style and I don't care too much for the tone but it won't dissuade me from listening to anyone who does. I wish a lot of bands I like would use less gain but that's a story for a different thread.

[csm]

Among blues bands, the primary reason for tuning to Eb is to discourage the club-owner from sitting in on harp.

[Cold Gin]

 

You obviously didn't read where I said I was just asking opinions. Some people might play doom in standard tuning, who knows. I am well aware of the 60's and 70's bands and the old baritone jazz guitars. I stated that it seemed like the trend picked up around as you said the early 90's. Sure Morbid Angel, Carcass and other extreme metal bands were doing it before most metal bands in the 80's but once the "nu-metal" scene hit, there was no alternative. I don't prefer it mainly because it is not my style and I don't care too much for the tone but it won't dissuade me from listening to anyone who does. I wish a lot of bands I like would use less gain but that's a story for a different thread.

 

 

 

Not only Metal bands use alternate tunings...Sonic Youth were the pioneers of alternate tunings and the most experimental band as far as that is concerned and they're not Metal.