Is it worth it to pay for mastering?

[delayed delay]

We're FINALLY just about finished with our EP and we're looking into CD duplication and all (it's got 6 tracks)... After this summer, we'll have around $1,000 to spend on ordering CD's, t-shirts, and possibly mastering.... we're just trying to figure out which directions to go with that money. We found a pretty decent deal on DiscMakers for a 1,000 CD's (jewel discs, 2-panel inserts) for a $1,000 (and ALL kinds of bonus perks), and we've got our own graphics guy.... we're just trying to figure all this junk out....

 

is mastering worth it? ... say $50 a song, so $300 total. Is that worth it? Also, any recommendations on WHERE to get it mastered?

 

..no, I'm not talking about getting it mixed.... we've already got that taken care of.

[Alan Roberts]

Yes.

Where would depend on your budget.

[sabriel9v]

If you can afford it, why not?

[Geno_xl]

Assuming the cd is mixed well then it is definitely worth it.

 

I'd spend the money on mastering rather than t-shirts if I had to decide between the 2.

 

Where to do it depends on several factors. Do you want to do it locally? How much do you want to spend? All sorts of questions to ask. I actually have a book somewhere that lists places around the US that do it. I can try to find a local place for you if your interested.

 

Otherwise, you might find someone on the recording forum who can do it.

[germs]

From the price you quoted, it sounds like you're going with DiscMakers or some such company. I would definitely say that it is worth getting your tracks mastered.

 

There are TONS of benifits to getting mastered, most of which have to do with audio quality, leveling of the separate song tracks on the album, etc. The best reason I can give you is that when your friend goes to put this in his CD player, he doesn't have to turn it WAY up to actually hear anything. Undoubtedly you've come across this problem with local acts' CD's before.

 

So, to avoid further technobabble about the benifits of mastering:

YES, GO DO IT. PERIOD. END OF SENTENCE.

[Guvnor]

I would say learn to do a reasonable job yourself and do it at home. CDs are a loss leader anyway. This may not result in 'audiophile' pristine sound but people have shown they don't care about it anyway. MP3s don't sound that good but people eat them up. I think anything you can avoid paying on recording, you should... That's a lot of money for what ultimately becomes just a piece of a press packet. If you can honestly sell T-shirts, that's money better spent...

[Diiskrej]

If you have any respect for your recordings and want people to take it seriously, YES.

[germs]

Ever downloaded an mp3 from somewhere (not iTunes, but perhaps some indie band website or equivalent) and had it come out with really poor sound quality? And you notice that it's not the mix, because you can hear most everything, but it's too low in volume, and there's some audible white noise? So then you crank up your headphones, and you really hear the white noise, and you think "Man, they are a good band, but this recording sucks."?

 

That's becase they didn't master their recording. They put a "really good" mix on the songs in the "studio", and assumed that as long as everything sounded the same level on the reference monitors, then it would all be the same in their different CD players in their cars, home stereos, computers, etc.

 

Mastering does two main things that are very important:

 

1. Applies a more general overall EQ than mixing, and also provides the opportunity to silence unused frequencies, providing a more balanced (or emphasized) mix.

 

2. Equalizes volume between separate song tracks on the album.

 

People who buy this product expect their money's worth. You sort of owe them the best you can provide. Remember, this is your opportunity to show record labels, promoters, or whoever that you're a good band, capable of producing a good product that people will want to buy.

 

Ultimately, the decision is yours. I would encourage having it done professionally, as I find it does make a difference in the quality of the album. Furthermore, it is my opinion that anyone who discourages having it done has either suffered from a poor job in the past, or has never done it at all.

[Guvnor]

People don't generally buy music... what's wrong with mastering it yourself at home instead of $50 a song or per hour or whatever? Any local band will be lucky to sell a thousand CDs... there's just no market... You'd be cutting into a lot of profit...

[daddymack]

if you think you can move 1000 cds, then you should want them to be as good as you can make them.

Can you DIY?

Maybe, but there is a true art that goes with the technical aspects of mastering.

[ermghoti II]

 

is mastering worth it? ... say $50 a song, so $300 total. Is that worth it? Also, any recommendations on WHERE to get it mastered?

 

 

Good mastering starts around $100/song, maybe a bit less if it's a "one pass" job, where all the songs are similar, or it's a live performance, and the tech can treat the whole piece as one song, and add the fade in/outs. If you want to go much cheaper, you'd probably do nearly as well yourself, after learning a bit about the process.

 

I'd agree with the 1000 CD assessment, and maybe at 500.

[germs]

There's nothing wrong with mastering it at home yourself if you know what you're doing. Unfortunately, it's not as "easy" as the mixing process.

 

The software to properly master something is sort of expensive (unless you steal it, as some people are under the impression that "that's just what's going on now").

 

As previously stated, mastering at $50 per track is a good deal if it's part of a larger package (like those offered by the duplication companies). If your studio guy can't do it (assuming you didn't record it yourselves), then try to find someone local.

 

But here's the kicker, in reference to what Guvnor says:

 

If you're going to produce an album that people won't buy, then why are you producing it?

 

With the exception of "stadium" or "arena" bands, absolutely zero original bands make money on tour/playing live. Main revenue comes from merch sales at the venue (why do you think it's so expensive?). If you want to be known as an original act, then you owe it to your audience (who is shelling out money to you) to put out as good of a product as you are capable of producing. It's that simple.

 

Feel free to disagree, but you know I'm right.

 

Oh, and PM me if you want a name. My guy will work by email/file exchange or mail.

 

Edit: For an order of 1000 units, the revenue is definitely there. For the investment of $1/unit and the sale of $10/unit (gross profit of $9) you only need to scrape a meager 100 units to sell and break even. You should be able to do that in your first few months. But there I go again running this band like a business, instead of a vehicle to propel me towards total inebriation...

 

Edit again: My band took the DiscMakers package as well. We couldn't be happier with the results!

[sabriel9v]

 

With the exception of "stadium" or "arena" bands, absolutely zero original bands make money on tour/playing live. Main revenue comes from merch sales at the venue (why do you think it's so expensive?).

 

 

I disagree. Absolutely ZERO original bands make money while on tour? That's not possible. I know a few guys in original bands who actually have pretty high guarantees. They've been fortunate enough to make music their fulltime career and can afford to feed themselves and their families by playing live and selling their albums while on tour.

[Cygnus64]

People don't generally buy music... what's wrong with mastering it yourself at home instead of $50 a song or per hour or whatever? Any local band will be lucky to sell a thousand CDs... there's just no market... You'd be cutting into a lot of profit...

 

If you wanna put out crap, nobody can stop you. Most people dont, they want to put out a pro product regardless.

 

Mastering is done with expensive gear in top listening environments, by (hopefully!) skilled MEs. Pro products might sell, amateur ones never will.

 

300 bucks?? Thats $75 per person for a 4-piece band. Thats one day of working at MacDonalds. Thats a nice dinner at a fancypants restaurant. If anyone is actually worried about "cutting into" 75 bucks that can make the product a LOT better, they probably shouldnt be making CDs.

[germs]

 

I disagree. Absolutely ZERO original bands make money while on tour? That's not possible. I know a few guys in original bands who actually have pretty high guarantees. They've been fortunate enough to make music their fulltime career and can afford to feed themselves and their families by playing live and selling their albums while on tour.

 

 

Okay...let's do the math.

 

You're right, the math is improbable. I was in a rush.

 

But I stand by my statement, far fewer than you think make an acutual living. Perhaps not zero per se...

[humancertainty]

 

Okay...let's do the math. $5000 guarantee (1K/member for easy math) - 150 fuel expense to get to show van w/trailer - 200 food expense (2 meals per member per day, IF you have a rider) - 200 "entertainment/misc" (use your imagination) - 100 for advance promotions (assumed fan use) - 300 for sound guy - 500 for booking/promotions - 50 daily "show" exp. i.e. strings, sticks, picks, etc. - 50 every few days for laundry $4000 or so left to split 5 ways: 800 per member per day, not counting clothing, cigarettes, new gear, bills back home, childcare, etc. No one is out there making that kind of money 5-6 days a week in a van. Sorry. Arguement over. It just doen't go down that way. There's no such thing as a guarantee. I hate to break it to you like that. There are too many variables involved. Post later, g/g.

 

 

Um, have you actually DONE any touring?

I've been touring for eleven years, and I can assure you, you cane make money playing your own music. The two bands I'm in play very commercialy non-viable music and we do alright. With one of them, if we toured six months out of the year, we probably wouldn't have to work. Merch sales help, as well.

BTW, the reason merch at big concerts is so expensive is because the venue is taking a percentage of it. Therefore, the bands raise their prices to accomodate for it.

Sorry. Argument over.

[humancertainty]

Oh, yeah.

Pay to master your {censored}.

John Golden mastered the last album I was on and it sounded fantastic.

[Cygnus64]

Um, have you actually DONE any touring?

 

HAAA! I was gonna say the same thing.

[humancertainty]

Yeah, those budget numbers are ridiculous.

[sabriel9v]

Okay...let's do the math. $5000 guarantee (1K/member for easy math) - 150 fuel expense to get to show van w/trailer - 200 food expense (2 meals per member per day, IF you have a rider) - 200 "entertainment/misc" (use your imagination) - 100 for advance promotions (assumed fan use) - 300 for sound guy - 500 for booking/promotions - 50 daily "show" exp. i.e. strings, sticks, picks, etc. - 50 every few days for laundry $4000 or so left to split 5 ways: 800 per member per day, not counting clothing, cigarettes, new gear, bills back home, childcare, etc. No one is out there making that kind of money 5-6 days a week in a van. Sorry. Arguement over. It just doen't go down that way. There's no such thing as a guarantee. I hate to break it to you like that. There are too many variables involved. Post later, g/g.

 

How did you come up with these estimates? Aren't you cooking the books to a certain extent? You factored in things like cigarettes, childcare, and new gear...this is very subjective. Not everyone has the same purchasing habits. And who spends $50 on strings and picks $50 on laundry?

 

All I know is I've got friends who tour non-stop with original bands and they're able to make ends meet. It's hard...there's no doubt about that. But IMPOSSIBLE? No.

[BlueStrat]

I had my last CD mastered in a mastering studio where that's all they do. (DRT Mastering, Peterboro, NH) The cool thing is, they did it for 400 dollars for 12 songs (in 2003), and it came out great. I've had compliments about how good my stuff sounds even on myspace compared to most stuff that's out there.

 

Think of it this way: You've just restored a 1963 Corvette. new motor, new upholstery, new paint, etc. Are you going to roll it out and try to sell it without having it detailed? That's what mastering is-polishing and cleaning up the finished product--making song spacing right, sound levels the same from song to song, maybe a bit or aural exciting, maybe a frequency compression-it really makes the record sparkle and gives it that 'radio ready' sound. Most people can't do a good job of this themselves because they don't have the equipment or the know-how. The guy who recorded my first CD was Dan Humann, who did the soundtracks for Romeo Must Die and Boyz n the Hood, and recorded two albums for Allan Holdsworth, and he wouldn't attempt to master our record.

[Cygnus64]

Most people can't do a good job of this themselves because they don't have the equipment or the know-how.

And they dont have the objectivity. They approach it with pre-conceived opinions. A fresh set of independent, pro ears is easily worth a few bills.

[delayed delay]

Any chance you could give me some contact info and that kind of a sweet deal? I think we're gonna have to find a way to pay for the mastering..... I truly feel we've got a lot of great potential, and I think we'll break even pretty quickly with our songs.... for our demographic, we're in the perfect area, and if we pay $1,500 for CDs and mastering, all we'll need to do is sell 160ish CDs to break even, and that's cake for what we've got going on in the fall and spring....

 

seriously though, could you hook me up with some contact info? that would be great....

 

if you're Pat Coast, I really did enjoy your tunes on MySpace.... good quality stuff.

[BlueStrat]

 

Any chance you could give me some contact info and that kind of a sweet deal? I think we're gonna have to find a way to pay for the mastering..... I truly feel we've got a lot of great potential, and I think we'll break even pretty quickly with our songs.... for our demographic, we're in the perfect area, and if we pay $1,500 for CDs and mastering, all we'll need to do is sell 160ish CDs to break even, and that's cake for what we've got going on in the fall and spring.... seriously though, could you hook me up with some contact info? that would be great.... if you're Pat Coast, I really did enjoy your tunes on MySpace.... good quality stuff.

 

 

Thanks for the kind words...

You can reach DRT at this site:

 

http://www.drtmastering.com/

Click on the first link and it gives you a lot of info about what they do, how they do it, what gear they use, and different pricing structures.

 

If you have a high speed connection and have large enough sound files, you can send them a tune and have them master it for you and send it back so you can hear the difference and see if it's something you want to do. That's what they did for me, anyway.

[Instrospection]

 

I would say learn to do a reasonable job yourself and do it at home. CDs are a loss leader anyway. This may not result in 'audiophile' pristine sound but people have shown they don't care about it anyway. MP3s don't sound that good but people eat them up. I think anything you can avoid paying on recording, you should... That's a lot of money for what ultimately becomes just a piece of a press packet. If you can honestly sell T-shirts, that's money better spent...

 

 

No, I disagree with this.

 

Mainly because though I do agree with you in that it seems like a waste, it's definetely not wasted. If you do everything yourself, it gets harder and harder to be taken seriously. Think of it as a car--sure you could probably build your own car, but it's probably not going to run very well and will probably break down alot. It looks alot better and it's more reliable to pay for something that works and runs and looks well--because the thing is, if you have something that sounds like crap, sure you technically saved money, but it probably will not sound that great. Great masters CAN be done at home, but you're often not having the perspective that a really professional mastering engineer has.

 

You can get alot of good, reputable mastering guys in the 600-1000 dollar range for an album. We got John Golden to master ours to cd and vinyl (he's done the cd which sounds great, then he's doing the vinyl), who's worked with tons of big artists and tons of great underground bands that are similar to us in sound, or are outright influences. Then for our bio for our next record, we can have a "name" guy on there that looks infinitely better than no one that anyone has heard of.

 

At some point, you need a name guy on your recording somewhere--could be the recording, could be the mix, could be the master. Let's face it, a name person, a name brand, helps you in your pursuit of becoming a name brand, as well. If you can record and mix well, a mastering engineer is worth his/ her weight in gold, simply because they get that much more out of your recording. With John, I told him that we wanted something competently loud, but not slammed. We gave him alot of dynamic to work with, and he did a great job, it was loud and clear, but not compressed or limited to hell. If anyone's in doubt, I recommend him, he's $660 for a cd, does a great job, he has two months of work (bodes well, because that means he's in big demand), AND he's a great guy who will talk to you for as long as it takes to get what you're going for.

 

Good thing to note--don't give a slammed master mix to the mastering engineer....it makes his job difficult. Tons of bands are slapping brickwall limiting plugs on their mixes and castrating it before the mastering engineer can do his or her job.

 

If you want a great sounding product, there's just no way around getting paying someone to do it.