CD Replication and packaging. Jewel cases? Sleeves?

[RyanVanHalen]

We've finished our cd mastering, and it sounds great.

 

Now we're at the point that we'd like to get it replicated (by diskfactory or someone else) and because the price difference is so big, we're debating getting the heavy cardboard sleeves (shrink-wrapped, upc'd, awesome graphics) instead of doing the 6-panel digipack we wanted to do.

 

Now... tell me this. when you go to a show, and you're checking out the merch & cd's of the band, does it make a different to you if its in a jewel case or in a carboard sleeve?

 

I know 1,000 of the replicated, super-pro cd's are about $1,700. lotta money.

[sabriel9v]

 

when you go to a show, and you're checking out the merch & cd's of the band, does it make a different to you if its in a jewel case or in a carboard sleeve?

 

 

Not really. A jewel case gives the package a more professional look, but at the end of the day I'm more concerned with the content on the cd as opposed to the external package.

[slight-return]

hmmm...

 

I suppose it kind of matters to me

 

I mean, with a cardboard sleeve, I know I'm going to have to go home, cut the sleeve into a cover - possibly make a spine label, and put it in a jewel case to get it fit into the CD rack without being "the invisible lost CD"

 

I susect it also calls into question for me (I say "suspect" b/c I'm not sure it's actually happening "up front" in the mind, like I'm verbally making the evaluation) the overall production values..."Is this going to be a dye sub disc?", "Is this, basically, a glorified demo?" - that kind of thing

 

If I really enjoyed the music nd wanted to take some home, I don't think it would push to a GO/NO GO - but it could effect the percieved value and the pricepoint I'd be happy with

 

I'm not entirely sure, though, I'm in your demographic market, so take that into acct

[RyanVanHalen]

I guess I'm just frustrated trying to come up with the money for this replication.

 

The rest of the band isn't always a help.

[slight-return]

Q1 : what price were you looking to put on these guys? (like maybe you should look at the numbers for both options with difference sale prices, different producion costs)

 

Q2: Is this merch-table only type stuff, or are you looking to retail it (through whatever outlets) as well?

[RyanVanHalen]

 

Q1 : what price were you looking to put on these guys? (like maybe you should look at the numbers for both options with difference sale prices, different producion costs) Q2: Is this merch-table only type stuff, or are you looking to retail it (through whatever outlets) as well?

 

 

I guess I don't think $1.77 per cd is that bad. It's a great deal, but it's just requiring a lot of initial capital I can't come up with.

 

We'd be wanting to have it wherever we can. stores, online, and at shows

[slight-return]

 

I guess I don't think $1.77 per cd is that bad. It's a great deal, but it's just requiring a lot of initial capital I can't come up with.

 

 

I mean have you looked at the rest of the paramters - what you think you could sell the product for (in both formats) v the expected volume (in those formats)?

 

basiclly, where do you think the sweet-spot for the ROI is?

 

I think right now, maybe you are venting and having sticker shock (which is totally understandable) and are cost-driven -- but how are the rest of the numbers looking?

 

We'd be wanting to have it wherever we can. stores, online, and at shows

 

I'd suspect (just suspect - I don't have hard data, so take it as such...others might have different takes) that the cardboard sleeve issue would be of greater concern (as you don't have the excitement of the show, active sales people driving the sale, that 'direct involvement' experience...so packaging might have a somewhat larger role there)

[RyanVanHalen]

 

I mean have you looked at the rest of the paramters - what you think you could sell the product for (in both formats) v the expected volume (in those formats)? basiclly, where do you think the sweet-spot for the ROI is? I think right now, maybe you are venting and having sticker shock (which is totally understandable) and are cost-driven -- but how are the rest of the numbers looking? We'd be wanting to have it wherever we can. stores, online, and at shows I'd suspect (just suspect - I don't have hard data, so take it as such...others might have different takes) that the cardboard sleeve issue would be of greater concern (as you don't have the excitement of the show, active sales people driving the sale, that 'direct involvement' experience...so packaging might have a somewhat larger role there)

 

 

Those are some really great thoughts.

 

I know that no matter what way we get it, its going be a huge profit maker, and will pay itself off quickly. It's just a matter of getting the initial investment.

[slight-return]

oops, sorry I think I hacked off that last sentence (I hate glidepoints) but I thik you got the meaning anyway

[Instrospection]

 

I guess I don't think $1.77 per cd is that bad. It's a great deal, but it's just requiring a lot of initial capital I can't come up with. We'd be wanting to have it wherever we can. stores, online, and at shows

 

 

Yeah, the initial capital is a bitch. You know, one of your bandmates--or all of you---should sit down, pool your expenses, and form your own record label, where you can write things off. $1700 might seem like alot now, but you can write that off....think of it as a savings. Promo, you can write that off too. I always advise bands to be smarter about the business....it's not $1700 that you're losing, it's $1700 that you get back next year, regardless....as long as you duplicate cds, do interviews (clip out all your press: interviews, reviews), make digital downloads available, play out and try to get the word out, you need to spend that money in order to make that money, and you can lose money for a few years.

 

The worst that can happen if you form your own record label and register as a business, is that you get that $1700 back. Like every other rock n' roll dream, that's something that also has to wait.

 

Also: something to think about--regular jewel cases are heavy. At least, in the sense, where they cost a surprising amount of money to ship, compared to other cd packaging. I'm now thinking of getting ours pressed up on those minifolder/ paper/ cardboard type things....they weigh less, and something that I was thinking about the slimline plastic ones (though they have no spine, so they're not good), is that the shipping on those, for promo purposes, are about half the price to ship. One thing to think about is pressing up lighter weight promos......that's something that no one told me that I found out the hard way when sending out tons of cds at what's basically double.

 

The pocket/ folder cds cost more to press up as they use more ink and cost more to do (even through TuneCore), but the way I figure it, we'll save that back in shipping. Shipping a slimline cd across Canada is about $1.00....shipping the same standard jewel case cd across Canada is a bit over $2.00. That's double. Factor in shipping out the dupes, the masters, the shipping costs from the dupes back, and then promos, and then distribution costs for either you or the label (especially from or to the US, where shipping costs twice as much to ship inside of Canada).....i'm now thinking those folder type cds would save a killing on shipping and would almost immediately pay for themselves.

 

Weigh out physically what it costs to ship out certain packaged cds that you already have to certain markets and then see what the difference in shipping costs are....that's the best I can advise. The last thing you want to be doing is promo-ing across half the US and paying a premium on a jewelcase cd...so yeah, consider some downsized options for promo purposes. I knew of some bigger indie labels that promo-ed with only liner notes and a cd and bio, vastly reducing the shipping costs.

 

Long message, but i've been through this and have found my own ways to cut down on costs, because like everything in the start when you're paying out lots of money before anything's sold (and eternally doing promos--which every label does for every successful band, even), money becomes tight.

[slight-return]

One note abt "minifolder" type CD cases - don't just check by weight

check directly with the post office on shipping

 

lost a number of units once (now this was abt 8 years ago, so it might have changed) b/c the post* we were sending them and the size sent them through bending sorter

SNAP

 

*It was a bulk mailing. Lower volume stuff I bet doesn't get sorted the same way.

 

 

in USA there is "media mail", don't know if Canada has it, which might change the price difference between the two packaging methods we're looking at

 

Certainly something to consider for the mailing though

[cherri]

Why do you need 1,000 CDs? Do an initial run of 300 or 500, and use the profits from those sales to order more when you need them.

[sabriel9v]

Why do you need 1,000 CDs? Do an initial run of 300 or 500, and use the profits from those sales to order more when you need them.

 

+10

[Dreabfly]

Why do you need 1,000 CDs? Do an initial run of 300 or 500, and use the profits from those sales to order more when you need them.

 

+1000!!

[Dreabfly]

There's also more now than ever the environmental concern. Large runs that aren't sold amount to a lot of wasted plastic.

 

Maybe you could find a green alternative and do a short run. That could also open you up to doing some festivals/gigs specifically geared towards the environmental movement and use your band as an example of musicians trying to make a difference.

[RyanVanHalen]

 

Why do you need 1,000 CDs? Do an initial run of 300 or 500, and use the profits from those sales to order more when you need them.

 

 

Because all the places we've looked, they'll only do replication (instead of duplication) on orders over 1,000. Or, when you boil it down, you're getting half price for double the cd's, so 500 cds costs almost as much as 1000.

 

I think we're just going to do the sleeves. It has taken us SO long to go from getting our E.P. Demo recorded, mastered, and now pressed! ITS TAKING FOREVER.

 

thanks for the input!

[sabriel9v]

 

Because all the places we've looked, they'll only do replication (instead of duplication) on orders over 1,000. Or, when you boil it down, you're getting half price for double the cd's, so 500 cds costs almost as much as 1000. I think we're just going to do the sleeves. It has taken us SO long to go from getting our E.P. Demo recorded, mastered, and now pressed! ITS TAKING FOREVER. thanks for the input!

 

 

Have you considered duplication as an option? Or do you prefer replication due to the better sound quality? Nonetheless, I personally believe that the content on an ep or lp should take precedent. Good songwriting...hopefully material that's refreshing and pushes some parameters. Lots of bands spend so much time trying to tailor the sound quality that they forget about the fundamentals such as creative songwriting and arrangement. I feel those two factors will ultimately grab the consumers' ears.

[RKBassGuyNJ]

My band just released our new record, and did a 4-panel Digipak - more professional.

 

we went through DiscMakers, and it came out to about $1500 - we had our own graphics guy - not sure if you do.

[RyanVanHalen]

Yeah... We were going to do a 6-panel digipack, but the initial capital is too much.

 

and yes, I am really stuck on having the replicated, silk-screened, pro cd.

 

and I feel good enough about these songs to spend the money for them.

go listen on our myspace page and see if you like them.

[Instrospection]

 

There's also more now than ever the environmental concern. Large runs that aren't sold amount to a lot of wasted plastic. Maybe you could find a green alternative and do a short run. That could also open you up to doing some festivals/gigs specifically geared towards the environmental movement and use your band as an example of musicians trying to make a difference.

 

 

Yup. 1000 is way, way too many. A few hundred should do. Not only that, but you can say that the first run is "limited" and "sold out", from a few hundred. You don't have to specify the quantity, but TRUST ME, there's lots of people that say they'll buy, when they never do....could be them being nice, could be "deferred/ future sales", but when you're a new band, EVERYONE says that they'll buy a copy, then you overestimate and then wonder where those people are. You know like just how alot of people say, "we should get together sometime", but never do? Well, that's code for "we should NEVER get together sometime" most of the time, hahaa, just as "i'll buy a cd" is usually code for "i'll NEVER buy a cd". Never underestimate the politics of people being kind....like, people will never tell you to your face that they don't like your band. I call it the "bull{censored}-dar"...when people are being overly kind about "future situations", it's a way out. If people will buy a cd, they'll give you ten bucks and say, "I know you're good for it....gimme a cd when you get them. I like to support the hard working band, anyways", just as "we should get together sometime", the people that mean it, say, "hey, how's next Saturday for you?" or something. In other words, the people that are sincere tie up the open ends right then and there and show their support or their desire to not leave it open ended.

 

The cd folder/ wallet type packaging are usually eco-friendly, as well. I've seen that on some bands' cd folder/ wallet type cds.

[sabriel9v]

Since we're on this subject, RyanVan, I'm going to momentarily hijack your thread...if you don't mind. My question is this, we all know that record labels have a schedule and order in which they release albums. More popular artists usually have their most recent work released near the holidays and in the fourth quarter. This is because consumers are more willing to expand their purchasing habits and splurge during these times.

 

Can the same mentality be applied to the indie model? Sometimes it feels as if everyone and their grandmother is releasing an album this year. As indie artists, can we gauge when releasing an album is most advantageous? What factors contribute to this?

[daddymack]

without massive market research, I think the indie release model is more a 'throw it at the wall and see what sticks' approach

[DanielQ]

Keep in mind that when asking if the sleeves or whatever matter here, we're fellow musicians. Generally, I don't think it'll matter much with us.

 

However, with fans and non-musicians, I personally think it will matter more.

[masterbuilt]

Replication.... Duplication... the sound is the same. Durability is NOT.

 

The biggest labels selling in Japan are often using CDR/silvers these days. When I did my last album, which was mostly ukulele music (originals) and five guitar-oriented tracks, I opted for the equipment to make the CDR/silvers with "painted" graphics. I had the CD liners professionally printed from my supplied artwork (my wife is a designer and did the outer cover, I did the inner graphics and back panel).

 

We now can produce them when we need them and the discs sound great. The one thing to remember is that the new CDR/silvers look almost identical to the untrained eye, and the sound, like I said is the same. No, they are not as durable as "pressed" CDs, but, they are available in virtually every "duplication house" on the planet. Doing smaller lots is economically more feasible than it used to be.

[germs]

We used DiscMakers and got the package deal:

 

1000+ CD's pressed w/printed wrapped sleeves

custom artwork on CD and front/back cover

35 shirts

500 stickers (for giveaways)

 

We paid about $1500 or so for the deal.

 

Here's the line of thinking:

 

CD's sell for $10/unit at shows, shirts sell for $10-15 (depending on size). You only have to sell 100-150 CD's (not including shirts) to recoup your costs for the whole deal. That's about 6 months of gigs for the average band. The rest can be used as promo to radio and labels (if you're into that sort of thing). It's a win/win situation. What isn't promo'd is strict profit for your band to the tune of $10 a pop. See where I'm going with this?

 

Startup costs can be intimidating, but the investment is worth it. And that's what it is, an investment. A smart business move would have been to save your gig money to help pay for this process (assuming you're playing and/or getting paid). I'm sure you had a small amount that got eaten up in the studio/mixing/mastering process...just play some more until you can afford it. Or, if you really want to get this out, have some kind of fundraiser or tip jar on stage. The possibilities are endless.