Re. Fender Blacktop series

[twotimingpete]

hah.. the blacktops just went from $450 to $500 overnight (on MF).

 

as of this writing music123.com still has them for $450... if anyone was on the verge of buying, now seems to be the time.

[Grantus]

 

hah.. the blacktops just went from $450 to $500 overnight (on MF). as of this writing music123.com still has them for $450... if anyone was on the verge of buying, now seems to be the time.

 

 

Maybe they saw the discussion here and thought it would drive up demand. Although you'd think, then, that the Jag price would go down.

[Stackabones]

I'm GASsing for the tele.

[BIGD]

I got mine for around $350 from MF because of a misprint in the ad and a discount code they had lying around. $500 is a bit steep, but considering the next step up is $700+....

[hugbot]

I got the Jazzmaster.

 

Playability decent, looks great, factory set up garbage.

 

With a decent setup and new maybe new pickups (I'm not hearing this "muddyness") its a good guitar.

 

I A/B'd it with the jag in the store. Tonally very similar on the bridge pickup, the Jazz just sounded and played a bit looser which I liked.

[D34dBaWx]

Not pissed, I just cringe with every post from somebody saying "that tele with the hardtail bridge..that's just not right, MAN, teles are supposed to have 3 barrel bridges on metal plates MAN". Shut up you old fart. Anway, no the Jazzmaster isn't muddy at all, especially compared to the tele which is REALLY muddy. The neck is bright and jangly, the bridge pu is typical PAF type middy. The 2 combined is just outstanding. I never use the middle setting on any guitar unless I'm forced to, but on this guitar it shines. I'd consider upgrading to a better PAF in the bridge, but it isn't a pressing issue. I'd buy the tele and put a humbucker from hell in the neck or something..of maybe try to fit in a jazzmaster pickup or humbucker sized p90.

 

I so agree. Rock N Roll is about bucking tradition and being a rebel. Not playing guitars that grandpas condone as proper. And besides if Fender makes a dual humbucker tele who are the grandas to call it "not a tele". Fender gets to name them and make them, we just get to buy them.

 

 

[BIGD]

 

I got the Jazzmaster. Playability decent, looks great, factory set up garbage. With a decent setup and new maybe new pickups (I'm not hearing this "muddyness") its a good guitar. I A/B'd it with the jag in the store. Tonally very similar on the bridge pickup, the Jazz just sounded and played a bit looser which I liked.

 

 

The Jazz played looser? Strange considering that it is 2 scale lengths longer than the Jag, everything should feel tighter, but then there's the bridge.

 

The Jazzmaster has a pseudo hollow body tone to it, which I believe is largely the result of the string length running behind the bridge. It creates overtones, and in general a guitar that feels and sounds different from traditional bridges on most other guitars. ...maybe a bigsby produces something similar, I don't own a guitar with one.

[IBDBB]

 

This interests me mainly because I'm currently trying to decide between the blacktop jazzmaster and the nighthawk. Having played the jazzmaster, my main complaint is the pickups. If I did buy it, I'd have to drop at least another $100 to get a good set of pickups to replace them. The nighthawk I haven't tried yet, but I'm concerned about the pickups as well as a lot of the demo's I've seen, they sound rather thin. Seymour Duncan makes replacement pickups for them, but that's easily another $150. How does the nighthawk sound to you?

 

 

I think that actually the bridge humbucker sounds pretty good. I think the neck humbucker was a little on the muddy side, but a replacement for that is a lot easier to find than the bridge slanted HB replacement. The middle single coil i think sounds decent enough to get combination sounds with the other pickups, don't think I would ever use it by itself anyway.

The only thing that i don't like about it so far, is the fretboard does not feel or look like ebony...

[IBDBB]

 

My blacktop Jazzmaster is a pretty flawless match in terms of wood pieces. The buzzing is an issue with ANY Jazzmaster, no matter how much you spend, unless you want to put 11's or higher on it, which is bull{censored}. The bridge design is assinine. It creates a unique and distinct sounding guitar, but at the expense of having your height adjustment nuts rattle all over the place. The neck pickup is great, the bridge pickup is what you'd expect on a $400 guitar. The middle position tone is outstanding. The neck on mine is perfect. The tone pot is useless as it's either on are off, and the toggle switch is a piece of {censored}. When someone says that a guitar is "just wrong" because Fenders are supposed to have single coils, I chalk that up to someone who has a different view on guitars than me. I really couldn't give 2 sniffles that Leo Fender decided to put skinny pickups on a guitar. A guitar is a piece of wood shaped that way I want it to be shaped, with the pickups I want to put on it. Guitar "conservatism" is so {censored}ing boring. "Man, that strat with the hard tail just looks WRONG". You sir are a very boring and lame person, and that is wrong. I guess my view on guitars indicates my coming of age in the 80's when Eddie Van Halen played a "wrong" guitar and every Jimmy Page freak could barely contain their hatred. I played the teles when they first came out, and the neck pickup is worthless it's so muddy. Seeing the Jaguar and strat have the same pickups, it probably suffers the same fate. I would prefer if they released the tele stat and Jag with a single coil neck pickup as they did with the Jazz, or a humbucker voiced brighter. Maybe a p90 or Jazzmaster pickup.

 

 

I thought the pickups were pretty good as well.

If I got another one though, I would want to see what it looks like first. I've bought $80 SX's that were matched better than that Fender was...

I bought sight unseen because they gave me 20% off...

[honeyiscool]

I don't know why Fender still thinks that bundling any form of a Jazzmaster/Jaguar bridge is acceptable. Just use a Mustang bridge already. It's what people deserve. It's the most common modification to a Jazz/Jag, and almost everyone modifies the bridge one way or another on one of those, or uses Locktite, or whatever. Even on the MIM ones.

 

They changed the non-essentials like the fingerboard radius and they tried to change the bridge somewhat but I feel like they should have just used a Mustang-type bridge with the large, fitted saddles. Then they'd be actual player's guitars with no mods needed.

 

My Mustang-modified CIJ Jaguar with its 24" scale plays perfectly with 9s, no buzz or tuning issues. My Mustang also plays perfectly with 9s.

[Beyer160]

 

I don't know why Fender still thinks that bundling any form of a Jazzmaster/Jaguar bridge is acceptable. Just use a Mustang bridge already. It's what people deserve. It's the most common modification to a Jazz/Jag, and almost everyone modifies the bridge one way or another on one of those, or uses Locktite, or whatever. Even on the MIM ones.

 

 

I'm perfectly comfortable with the stock JM bridge (locktite and all) and really don't understand all the bitching about it, but yeah, a stock Mustang bridge would be nice.

[honeyiscool]

Yeah but don't you think the bridge is the reason why people quickly dismiss these guitars? In my mind, there are five problems with the stock JM tailpiece/bridge setup:

 

1. Lack of break angle.

2. Saddles are easily skipped.

3. Height adjustment screws pop out.

4. Height adjustment takes place at two places, which is confusing.

5. Bridge rarely returns to zero (horizontally) after heavy trem use.

 

The MIM takes care of #1 and #2, but the rest of the issues remain. Mustang kills all the issues except for #5, but honestly, Strats don't exactly return to zero either after a bout of Hendrix. And if you don't use the trem too vigorously, #5 never matters.

[Stackabones]

I played a BT Tele today. Good git, but I think I'm going to save up for the '72 Thinline.

[Beyer160]

 

5. Bridge rarely returns to zero (horizontally) after heavy trem use.

 

Neither does a Bigsby or a Strat trem- that's the price you pay for the sublime pleasure that is a properly adjusted JM trem. If that's a problem for you, get a Floyd.

 

The "classic" JM bridge is unique, takes some reading to understand, and a little work to modify if you don't want to use it the way it was designed (i.e., for playing jazz with 12s). Of your list, I consider 1 & 4 to be advantages, 2, 3, and 5 to be simple tradeoffs that I'm willing to make. If people don't dig it, that's cool, there are plenty of other guitars to play. It just so happens that a lot of people like it, though.

[Jimmy Chitown]

 

I really don't give a damn if other people like JMs or not. I imagine Fender cares quite a lot if people pass on buying their guitars based on a dislike (warranted or not) of the bridge, though. So yeah, it'd make sense for them to offer an "updated" bridge on some models (like the J. Mascis and CP) while retaining the "classic" bridge for purists. The BT bridge is sort of a hybrid with saddle adjustment screws like the "classic", but only one groove like the Mustang. Which, it can be argued, contributes to the uniqueness of the Jazzmaster tone. I love the CPs, but they don't quite "plink" like an AVRI. So you can chalk that up to personal preference. 5 minutes with a file fixes this. 5 minutes with a $5 bottle of locktite blue fixes this Flying a 747 is confusing. Adjusting a JM bridge takes a slight amount of research and concentration. Neither does a Bigsby or a Strat trem- that's the price you pay for the sublime pleasure that is a properly adjusted JM trem. If that's a problem for you, get a Floyd. The "classic" JM bridge is unique, takes some reading to understand, and a little work to modify if you don't want to use it the way it was designed (i.e., for playing jazz with 12s). Of your list, I consider 1 & 4 to be advantages, 2, 3, and 5 to be simple tradeoffs that I'm willing to make. If people don't dig it, that's cool, there are plenty of other guitars to play. It just so happens that a lot of people like it, though.

 

 

 

^^^this.

 

JM/Jag's = not for pussies.

[twotimingpete]

could you get the blacktop JM and then get a standard jazzmaster pickguard and JM pickups and mount them directly in without mods? anyone know?

 

also, anyone know if the blacktop strat has a standard route underneath so I could switch it over to a typical strat if I wanted?

[Noise...]

I adore my BT Jazzmaster. I intended to stick a Phat Cat in the bridge, but ended up loving the bridge humbucker.

 

The bridge is a tad finicky, but that's part of a Jazzmaster no matter what. Nothing a bit of loc-tite can't fix.

 

Quality wise, I'd say it's easily on par with the Classic Series or even CIJ's. Side by side with my CIJ Jag, I actually prefer the feel of the BT Jazzy.