Members A. Einstein Posted August 4, 2012 Members Share Posted August 4, 2012 Everything can be notated. The question is rather are there many musician who can read it. Even one and the same symphony, played by one and the same orchestra next day, sounds not the same as yesterday. Notation was never meant that the perfoming artist plays it 100% the same each time he perfoms the music. It is like reading a book, each reader imagines the story differently, even thus the text is always the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ernest Buckley Posted August 4, 2012 Members Share Posted August 4, 2012 It's because of posts like that I don't perma-ban you :) Like all villains, Rudy is misunderstood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted August 4, 2012 Members Share Posted August 4, 2012 total villain, but I receive the blessing of the protagonists every morning, and twice in the afternoon, then I go to the bar and have a beer, and then the whole fairytale starts all over again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jon Chappell Posted August 4, 2012 Members Share Posted August 4, 2012 ... the skill of notation also has some side effects for eaxmple you learn more about harmony and get an extended practical knowledge about rhythm ... Yes, because knowing a scoring program is just being able to notate music on a computer--writing down rhythms and pitches correctly, stacking a block-chord progression for a 17-piece big band, and writing felicitous counterpoint for a string quartet. Musicians skilled in the art of notation (everyone from Bach to Mahler to Henry Mancini to Don Sebesky) used to have to do this with pencil and paper. Now the computer can do it, while providing a host of benefits (playback using virtual instruments, parts extraction from a score, instant transposition, C-score v. transposed score presentation, MIDI integration [place an accent above a note in the score and it plays louder upon playback], etc.). Notation is vital in many music circles, including arranging and composing for large ensembles, education, and sheet music publication. Doing it on a computer is a godsend. Think of how DAWs changed multi-track recording or how digital photography and Photoshop have changed image processing or how the word processor has elevated writers from ink and dead-tree cellulose. That's how composers and arrangers view Sibelius. This conversation has morphed from a lament of the demise of a top scoring program (rivaled only by Finale for professional use) to the more general "Who needs notation?" That's fine, but to me the real news is that a leading scoring program has foundered, and not because it was wanting technically. All the major music publishers, from Hal Leonard to Alfred/Warner, use either Finale or Sibelius, the Harvard and Yale of scoring programs. And lately, Sibelius had the edge. (Hal Leonard, the largest music publisher in the world, uses Sibelius.) It is a huge deal that this wonderful program no longer has a dedicated, full-time staff to keep up with developments. I hope Avid will continue curate this fantastic and vital product, even if it outsources the task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members techristian Posted August 4, 2012 Author Members Share Posted August 4, 2012 I don't use notation much, but needed to create lead sheets from some MIDI music I created. It had my usual collection of expressiveness tricks with note-shifting and the like. Well, notation apparently doesn't have a symbol for "16 ticks before the beat to add tension" so the notation ended up looking like it was created by third-grade monkeys with access to a random collection of musical symbols.So I ended up stripping down the MIDI file to basics, and it worked much better.Speaking of notation...does anyone here use Notion? What do you think of it? And how could you properly notate a techno or purely synth song? How do you show "filter cutoff frequency gradually ramping up for 4 bars and then down for 4 bars" What I'm saying is this. Put it on a piece of paper in such a way that even if the orchestra never heard it they can still play it, even something like "Mr Mister "KYRIE"., or better yet "On the Run" by Pink Floyd. Put that on paper. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted August 4, 2012 Members Share Posted August 4, 2012 Musicians skilled in the art of notation (everyone from Bach to Mahler to Henry Mancini to Don Sebesky) used to have to do this with pencil and paper. and composers of this caliber do it still with pencil no computer, not even a piano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Geoff Grace Posted August 4, 2012 Members Share Posted August 4, 2012 Some do; some don't. I did it the old school way, by hand, during the days when computers used punch cards. I composed, scored, led rehearsals, and conducted my own symphony during college. I spent hours every day handwriting each and every part, while enduring blisters, callouses, and hand cramps. Most of the process was a thrill, but I could have lived without that part. More than a decade later, I was privileged to arrange and orchestrate for Michael Jackson. This time around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted August 4, 2012 Members Share Posted August 4, 2012 More than a decade later, I was privileged to arrange and orchestrate for Michael Jackson. Five minutes ago I just wrote the last note of Beethoven's 11th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Geoff Grace Posted August 4, 2012 Members Share Posted August 4, 2012 Because Brahms had already written Beethoven's 10th? Best, Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jon Chappell Posted August 4, 2012 Members Share Posted August 4, 2012 Sure, for quick sketches or jotting down ideas, I'm glad I can still write by hand. But for almost everything else, I'd never go back. Me neither. Just as when I had a TEAC 3440 and I had to play both the capoed high-guitar part (transposing on the fly) and sing the low harmony (the hard one) simultaneously, to the last available track. I can do it, but with unlimited tracks afforded by today's DAWs, I don't want to have to go back to that either. Think the guy who invented the Mellotron would still want to cut and loop bits of pre-recorded tape to get virtual instruments? Or would he opt for a DAW, Komplete 8, and an 88-key weighted-action controller? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted August 4, 2012 Members Share Posted August 4, 2012 Because Brahms had already written Beethoven's 10th?Best,Geoff no, that was Pierre Henry who wrote the 10th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goobers Posted August 5, 2012 Members Share Posted August 5, 2012 We give the copyist the MIDI data, not handwritings.Music notation is a written musical language, and only music and only composers and copysist are in command of the "grammatics"."Anyone" using it, that's something else. music that's noodled out in pure MIDI improvisations and then handed to copyists sounds like it. That's different from a better composer who's able to manipulate notes beyond "oh, that sounds good, I'll push record" and is able to use paper, pencil, notation, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted August 5, 2012 Members Share Posted August 5, 2012 Nonsense. You possibly have never seen what data we give to the copyists. I do not talk about folks who can't hear the differnce between a minor and major third, and the piccolo is the last staff in in their score. music that's noodled out in pure MIDI improvisations and then handed to copyists sounds like it. That's different from a better composer who's able to manipulate notes beyond "oh, that sounds good, I'll push record" and is able to use paper, pencil, notation, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted August 5, 2012 Members Share Posted August 5, 2012 and apart from that, a copyist can make a score out of every nonsense some amateurs deliver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted August 5, 2012 Members Share Posted August 5, 2012 and when a detail is not clear to the copyist, he calls the composer, sometimes several times per day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vintagevibes Posted August 5, 2012 Members Share Posted August 5, 2012 It's because of posts like that I don't perma-ban you :) Speaking of notation...does anyone here use Notion? What do you think of it? I have Notion 3 and it is a great idea - Notation designed from the ground up for real time playback that includes sequencer like editing. The problem is that it is immature and hasn't been updated in years. They say a new version is coming out soon but I'm skeptical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vintagevibes Posted August 5, 2012 Members Share Posted August 5, 2012 Speaking of notation...does anyone here use Notion? What do you think of it? I have Notion 3 and it is a great idea - Notation designed from the ground up for real time playback that includes sequencer-like editing. The problem is that it is immature and hasn't been updated in years. They've been working on iPad stuff. They say a new version is coming out this summer but I'm skeptical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted August 5, 2012 Members Share Posted August 5, 2012 In Logic notation work very well and in real time. When you don't need all "grammatics" of notation, then Logic is perfect. Cubase and Nuendo also works fine, but the fonts do not look like what musicians are used to, and editing notation is awful in Steinberg's programs. I don't understand why they don't cooperate with some composers who use notation daily. Playing directly into Sibelius is a pain in the arse , and the workflow and menu structure make me close the program after 5 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vintagevibes Posted August 6, 2012 Members Share Posted August 6, 2012 Some may remember my review here of their latest version of SIBELIUS a cople of months ago. I'd said the GUI was ugly and confusing. Some here wished to argue with me, but I think I was right. How is a personal opinion right? I love the new interface. Does that make me wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vintagevibes Posted August 6, 2012 Members Share Posted August 6, 2012 I wonder what the motivation for this was. $18 million a year and revenue, jobs for hundreds and then this ?http://www.artsjournal.com/slippeddisc/2012/08/at-sibelius-software-the-last-staff-turn-out-the-lights.htmlDan Just to be clear, according to Avid Sibelius only closed the London office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Huh? Posted August 6, 2012 Members Share Posted August 6, 2012 Just to be clear, according to Avid Sibelius only closed the London office. Which is where the blokes was what invented it mate! Including a certain one Mr Daniel Spreadbury......wonderful chap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jon Chappell Posted August 6, 2012 Members Share Posted August 6, 2012 Just to be clear, according to Avid Sibelius only closed the London office. Following is a copy of the official statement, from Avid VP Martin Kloiber (boldface mine): You may have recently read about the sale of M-Audio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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