Members FoonkySteve Posted January 7, 2012 Members Share Posted January 7, 2012 Howdy Guyses! Need some advice here (as usual) To cut a long story short, I got a Fender Modern Player Thinline tele deluxe today! But Wait! ........ please save your 'HNGD's' for now. So i get a call from my local guitar store today: 'It's in! Come an get it!' - basically. So i try it out in store, and it doesn't feel amazing, but i figured i'll set it up to my liking when i get it home. At the store it felt kinda...... sticky and tight. These guitars are supposed to come stock with 009s on but they felt like 0010s. The sales guy told me Fender 009s can sometimes feel thicker than normal??? I had already spotted the coloured ball ends in the back meaning my preferred brand (d'addario) were in there already. So i get it home, still not quite bonding with it, so i think right let's change these strings, so i took of the existing set and put in a wee shim under the bottom half of the p90's to raise them a bit for the unwound strings, as i noticed it sounded a bit bass heavy. Also while the strings were off, i thought i'll try polishing the frets (i know, on a new guitar, but you would be surprised how much dirt cme off em!). Put new strings on - Guitar feels exactly the same! Tried to lower the trings from each saddle, but it appears they were already at optimum lowness without fret buzz. So the guitar still feels, sticky, it's not just the high gloss on the back of the neck, my finger tips won't slide along the strings without sticking (brand new strings! 2 sets!) also it still feels really tight, and i don't think it's the action. It really feels like im fighting this one to get the notes out cleanly. I switched to my #1 strat - it had never felt so good, and easy to play! It is so slick in comparison, same with my squier tele. Im hoping you guys are gonna tell me, that this is extremely common with new guitars, and it just needs broken in. If i remember right, the Xavier JT-40 i got last year felt the same way, but i took it apart before i got the chance to break it in Help!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted January 7, 2012 Members Share Posted January 7, 2012 Is the neck relief OK? If so, shim the neck w/ a small business card thickness, I use a thin pick if I got one. This will really loosen up this guitar. Some Fenders just need a shim to feel right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members photon9 Posted January 7, 2012 Members Share Posted January 7, 2012 Did you check the relief? I find that's one of the biggest factors in how a guitar feels. The straighter the neck is the less tight it feels. Also your strings should be set-up to match the fretboard radius. You should not set-up each string to it's lowest buzz free point. Fender factory specs are 4/64" at the 17th fret for both E strings. That's a good place to start. Make sure both Es are buzz free. If not raise them in small increments until they are. After that use a radius guide that matches your fretboard radius to set the rest of the string heights. You can easily make one with a stiff piece of cardboard and a compass, or get machined metal ones from StewMac. I used to set each individual string to be buzz free for years. It's amazing how much better it feels when you set it up as described above. I highly recommend that you consider getting the set-up starter kit from StewMac. It's $80 but so worth it if you want to set up your guitars like a professional would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sk8centilli Posted January 7, 2012 Members Share Posted January 7, 2012 It sucks not being blown away with a new guitar. If you have a return policy that allows a period of time, I would take at least a week and see if it works for you. I've had some guitars that weren't right for me and were returned the same day; once, I held a guitar to the 29th day of a 30 day return just to give it a chance. Is the neck relief OK? If so, shim the neck w/ a small business card thickness, I use a thin pick if I got one.This will really loosen up this guitar. Some Fenders just need a shim to feel right. Yep. If you want it looser (more relief, potentially higher action), put the shim towards the heel - further away from the body. This may give you enough room to adjust the saddles to your liking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FoonkySteve Posted January 7, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 7, 2012 Did you check the relief? I find that's one of the biggest factors in how a guitar feels. The straighter the neck is the less tight it feels. Also your strings should be set-up to match the fretboard radius. You should not set-up each string to it's lowest buzz free point. Fender factory specs are 4/64" at the 17th fret for both E strings. That's a good place to start. Make sure both Es are buzz free. If not raise them in small increments until they are. After that use a radius guide that matches your fretboard radius to set the rest of the string heights. You can easily make one with a stiff piece of cardboard and a compass, or get machined metal ones from StewMac. I used to set each individual string to be buzz free for years. It's amazing how much better it feels when you set it up as described above. I highly recommend that you consider getting the set-up starter kit from StewMac. It's $80 but so worth it if you want to set up your guitars like a professional would. I've not checked the neck relief, how do i do that? Is it difficult?I don't want to f"ck up the guitar in case i decide to return it. I have the strings heights pretty much back to the way they were, i just counted each turn and took a note, it's probably not exact, but there is no buzzing and i don't think that's the problem. Maybe there isn't a problem, maybe it's just not for me?It's pretty much the ame neck as on my strat, both 9.5 radius, the only difference is the strat is 43mm at the nut, and the Thinline is 42mm. BTW - It sounds frickin awesome! and looks great too, but no pics until im happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted January 7, 2012 Members Share Posted January 7, 2012 Neck relief is easiest to measure by fretting the 1st and 15th frets (people disagree but whatever, this is good enough) on the bass E string while in tune, and then check out how much daylight you can see under the 6th fret (some say 5th or 7th). A neck with proper neck relief will have about a paper's width of daylight there. If it's touching the fret, then you need to give the neck more relief (turn the truss rod counterclockwise). If it's too far from the fret, then you need to tighten up the neck (turn the truss rod clockwise). You're really not going to mess up the neck doing this unless you're a doofus and you turn it five turns at a time. Just do small amounts. The first time you get the truss rod moving, you'll probably need to turn it quite a bit before the relief does anything noticeable, but once it's dialed in, even 1/8 turns are usually enough. I usually slacken the D and G strings a lot when I'm adjusting truss rod for the first time. If you pretty much tighten it with the D and G completely slack, and you get it to the point where the E string is practically touching the 6th fret when you do that test, then by bringing D and G back to tune, you usually put enough relief in there for the neck to feel perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FoonkySteve Posted January 7, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 7, 2012 Neck relief is easiest to measure by fretting the 1st and 15th frets (people disagree but whatever, this is good enough) on the bass E string while in tune, and then check out how much daylight you can see under the 6th fret (some say 5th or 7th). A neck with proper neck relief will have about a paper's width of daylight there. If it's touching the fret, then you need to give the neck more relief (turn the truss rod counterclockwise). If it's too far from the fret, then you need to tighten up the neck (turn the truss rod clockwise). You're really not going to mess up the neck doing this unless you're a doofus and you turn it five turns at a time. Just do small amounts. The first time you get the truss rod moving, you'll probably need to turn it quite a bit before the relief does anything noticeable, but once it's dialed in, even 1/8 turns are usually enough. I usually slacken the D and G strings a lot when I'm adjusting truss rod for the first time. If you pretty much tighten it with the D and G completely slack, and you get it to the point where the E string is practically touching the 6th fret when you do that test, then by bringing D and G back to tune, you usually put enough relief in there for the neck to feel perfect. Ok so i checked it, i can fit about a credit card and a half in there, do you think making an adjustment could solve the problem??Btw Thanks or the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members photon9 Posted January 7, 2012 Members Share Posted January 7, 2012 I'll check with the store asap about the returns policy, i really want this one to work though. Im gonna try the neck relief but i don't think i can handle the action much higher than it is now. Ok so i checked it, i can fit about a credit card and a half in there, do you think making an adjustment could solve the problem?? Btw Thanks or the help! That's way too much relief. Definitely adjust it. Remember, clockwise to make it less relief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FoonkySteve Posted January 7, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 7, 2012 That's way too much relief. Definitely adjust it. Remember, clockwise to make it less relief. Just checked my strat too, (which plays great) it looks about the same maybe about less than a mm more space on the thinline, could 0.5mm really make all the difference? If so....... how do i turn it? at the headstock? do i need a special tool? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted January 7, 2012 Members Share Posted January 7, 2012 0.5mm makes a huuuge difference. Knock down the relief some and then shim the neck if you need to. Also, it's possible to have good action with relatively high relief, but almost always you can improve it by making it flatter. You need a truss rod adjustment wrench. Your guitar, if new, should have come with one (the bigger of the two hex wrenches), and if not, one of your guitars must have a wrench that fits. Most Asian made guitars use the identical metric wrench for truss rod adjustments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FoonkySteve Posted January 7, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 7, 2012 You're really not going to mess up the neck doing this unless you're a doofus and you turn it five turns at a time. Just do small amounts. The first time you get the truss rod moving, you'll probably need to turn it quite a bit before the relief does anything noticeable, but once it's dialed in, even 1/8 turns are usually enough. Ok. Im almost ready to attempt this. The guitar didn't come with anything, other than a rolled up piece of sandpaper i found in the f-hole, someone at the factory must have left it there - true story. I got a wrench that fits tho! I am a bit of a doofus though, so i just wanna make sure i do this right, how much is "quite a bit"? obviously not 5 full turns, but not just 1/8 of a turn either right? HIC, do you not wanna just come over and do this for me, we don't live too far apart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brown, Charlie Posted January 7, 2012 Members Share Posted January 7, 2012 I'd take it to the shop and ask them to adjust the relief, tell them you're not jiving with it, etc. and you're considering returning it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HELSTRUME Posted January 7, 2012 Members Share Posted January 7, 2012 Take it back. I won't buy a guitar that doesn't feel great when I try it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FoonkySteve Posted January 7, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 7, 2012 I'd take it to the shop and ask them to adjust the relief, tell them you're not jiving with it, etc. and you're considering returning it. I think i would normally do that too, but the thing is, the tech in the shop, is known for being not great. Would there be anyway of them knowing, i've given the truss rod a wee micro turn? It could make it play like a dream! or it could make it worse, but if it does make it worse i can just turn it back again eh, then take it back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted January 7, 2012 Members Share Posted January 7, 2012 I usually, as I have said, loosen the D and G strings for this exercise. Just try a half turn. Tune. Check relief. As it gets closer, quarter turn, then 1/8" turn. I stop when there is exactly zero relief. Bring D and G to tune. This usually gives enough relief for me. The only way they'll know you messed with the truss rod is if you slip and gouge the truss rod slot. Also, this is a valuable adjustment that you should know how to make, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FoonkySteve Posted January 7, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 7, 2012 I usually, as I have said, loosen the D and G strings for this exercise. Just try a half turn. Tune. Check relief.As it gets closer, quarter turn, then 1/8" turn. I stop when there is exactly zero relief.Bring D and G to tune. This usually gives enough relief for me.The only way they'll know you messed with the truss rod is if you slip and gouge the truss rod slot. Also, this is a valuable adjustment that you should know how to make, I think. Ok Thanks man. Im gonna try it now, i'll keep y'all posted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the new guy Posted January 7, 2012 Members Share Posted January 7, 2012 Is the neck relief OK? If so, shim the neck w/ a small business card thickness, I use a thin pick if I got one.This will really loosen up this guitar. Some Fenders just need a shim to feel right. How exactly does the shim help with this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FoonkySteve Posted January 7, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 7, 2012 Holy {censored}! That Worked! Only now there's fret buzz everywhere, playing much better tho i guess i take it back a bit couter clockwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FoonkySteve Posted January 7, 2012 Author Members Share Posted January 7, 2012 Well that's enough tinkering for tonight. As soon as i tweaked it the first time it istantly felt 80% better, but was fret buzzing everywhere, i took a tiny turn counter clockwise, buzzing not as bad, but still there, and feeling not too bad. I done another micro turn counter clockwise, less fret buzz but still too much for my liking and starting to feel tighter again. Looks like it's gonna be one or the other. More tinkering (and possibly an official ngd thread) tomorrow - thanks guys! especially HIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grumphh Posted January 7, 2012 Members Share Posted January 7, 2012 Holy {censored}! That Worked! Only now there's fret buzz everywhere, playing much better tho i guess i take it back a bit couter clockwise? No, to get rid of the fret buzz you will have to adjust height of the strings again - raising them a bit. As you have made the bow in the neck smaller (less relief) you have brought the strings closer to the frets. So if you want a straighter neck but without the buzz, raising the saddles is the next step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JoeBoy Posted January 7, 2012 Members Share Posted January 7, 2012 Take to an Authorized Fender Warranty Repair place. It is new right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willyguitar Posted January 7, 2012 Members Share Posted January 7, 2012 Yes - v. good advice in this thread. I have generally found correcting neck relief to be a really important thing to sort out, to get get guitars how you want them, as long as you are careful. I've messed with all of my guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grumphh Posted January 7, 2012 Members Share Posted January 7, 2012 Also, one more thing that has nothing to do with the action but might affect the feel - is the fretwire profile any different from your favourite Strat? ...because the only guitar that i had that problem that you describe with was a Gibson Explorer that felt "sticky", although it wasn't really. The frets on that guitar just weren't nice to slide your fingers over, and it was not because of the size of them (because i have other guitars with fairly big frets too, and those never felt "sticky") so i'd guess it could be the actual profile? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Angry Tele Posted January 7, 2012 Members Share Posted January 7, 2012 the easiest way to set the radius is just have each string from the bottom of the string to the top of the fret measure the same, with the first fret capo'd and measure at the 12th. If you first set the low E string as low as you can/want without any buzz then the rest shouldnt buzz at that hieght either. (a little buzz is OK if it doesnt come through the amp)Pressing the first fret takes the nut out of the equation, if the strings all measure the same distance from the fret that means they follow the neck radius. Boom-no guage needed. also, Its a good idea to mark the truss rod first before moving it. And it may take a day or two for the neck to settle.you can see the little marker mark I made here. So if I wann start over I know where it was. (in this case I switched string guages so I tweaked the rod-if I go back to that guage Ill just bring the rod back to its spot) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members honeyiscool Posted January 8, 2012 Members Share Posted January 8, 2012 Holy {censored}! That Worked! Only now there's fret buzz everywhere, playing much better tho i guess i take it back a bit couter clockwise? Well, get the relief where you want it to be, and then adjust the action with your saddles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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