overplaying? how not to?

[mammynun]

If one is a newbie, how do youse guys keep from over playing on recordings?

[SudzDrummer]

that's a tough question... it's reletive to the song and what the song demands. If you're in a metal band, chances are overplaying is encouraged... if you're in a classic rock band you'll want to tone the fills down a bit.

 

I honestly think it's an experiance thing. Listen to some music in the genre you're in and critique the drum parts, that's how I've learned to harness myself

 

good luck!

[Watchdog]

Record and listen to playback. You'll hear if your overplaying.

[fesswrx]

I always ask myself, "does this improve the direction of the song?" If you can answer yes then its a go, if its a maybe tone it down a bit.

[tangmanUK]

For me it just came with experience and getting older (no offense to younger players, Im only 19 myself). The listening to a recording never worked for me as Id find some way to justify it.

 

The only thing I can suggest is try limit yourself to a fill every 8, 16 bars etc etc, and to keep the fills simple, you dont need to play a super double inverted paradiddle linear phrase etc etc

 

Keep it simple, there'll be less chance of you screwing it up, something as simple as opening the hi hat on the "&" of 4 or try play unisons along to the bass player etc etc

[manoeuver]

start with nothing.

 

add only what is absolutely necessary. I'm talking groove, here.

 

play a tune for a week or two with NO FILLS. add fills only where it sounds wrong without one.

[BATCAT]

Originally posted by T Hofmann start with nothing. add only what is absolutely necessary. I'm talking groove, here. play a tune for a week or two with NO FILLS. add fills only where it sounds wrong without one.

 

Yeah, aside from listening to playbacks, that kinda my approach.

 

Any time I'm coming up with a drum part for a song and it's not immediately clicking- when I'm not sure what's right for the song- I'll break it down to just the basic beat/beats. No fills, no crashes.

 

Then, as I continue to play it, the places where something extra is needed become apparent. Sometimes you hardly need to anything at all...

 

It's not unusual bandmates to ask me to add a fill somewhere...

 

The trick, I think, is to get in the mindset of "where should I addsomething" rather than "what do I need to take away from all this random stuff I'm doing?."

 

But sometimes I don't think so hard and just go with my gut...

[Majoria]

Less is more.

 

A friend was working on an album locally and was struggling to get some parts right. She then dumped the whole thing and went to Nashville and started over with a higher level produced and real studio musicians. The drummer apparently just came off tour with Leann Rimes and then did her album. It sounded so much better than the other drummer, not that he was bad, but the pro played less notes and vastly improved the emotion she was after.

 

Sometimes we think to build up a piece of music we have to play more or change more than is is necessary. While it's no secret that the drums bring out the emotion of a song, there are others that we have to rely on.

[organum]

In my opinion the best way to not overplay, is to not care. Most cases of overplay i have seen, are caused by a drummer who thinks "I want to look like a badass". Just play, the song will tell you what is necessary.

[manoeuver]

 

Originally posted by Majoria Less is more.

 

 

less isn't more, less is right.

[mraia]

 

Originally posted by T Hofmann less isn't more, less is right.

 

 

+1:thu:

 

Learn to groove. Before anything else, master time. Thats paramount. With good time, comes groove. Groove isnt about fills, its about pocket, about clicking with the bassist, about knowing when to sit back, and when to charge ahead.

Its ALL groove. Once you get that, like Thoffman said, put a fill in where the song will suck without it. Nothing more, nothing less.

[salislore]

I always try to start with the bare minimum, just concentrating on the groove first.

 

Then I start to put in the fills and potentail off-time parts. Always making sure they don't kill the groove. When in doubt about a part don't add it.

 

The one thing I can't take is a drummer that constantly over plays.

 

I find many drummers in cover bands over play. Like they need to prove that they are great drummers. I'm a drummer in a cover band and I always try to ensure that I don't over play the songs we do. The songs were hits the way they were done originally, so why change every one of them.

 

I'm not saying you can't change some songs, I take poetic license with some of the songs we do, just not all or most of them.

[pjb]

I usually find that people overplay cymbals more than drums.

Too many crashes in verses etc. Crashes are like punctuation, like exclamations and accents, not to be hit at the end of every {censored}ing bar. that is irritating. Listen to all classic songs, and usually nothing is overplayed, playing tastefully and building a dynamic comes with developing a good 'ear' for what fits a song.

[twosticks]

Might try playing a song with ONLY Bass/snare/hats. The rest of the stuff is just fill if you get down to it. Overplaying is equal to the guy that guy keeps changing lanes down the interstate. Best if you just stay in the coasting middle lane.

But if you ever get down to the nuts and bolts, Bass/snare/ hats makes a simple drummer, makes you learn new ways to build emotion, It may help and I hope it does.......

[1001gear]

Originally posted by T Hofmann less isn't more, less is right.

 

No. Less is less. Just right is right.

 

Anyway a drummer should be aware of the form /structure (both linear and vertical) of the song and that kit drumming is in fact accompaniment. There's a term from counterpoint that that has a lot of merit here; COMPOSITE RHYTHM. That is, the linear rhythm of all the musical events should be considered when planning 'the beat' as well as before filling or deviating even subtly from 'the beat'. This may aid in your ability to detect and avoid rhythmic/aesthetic clashes and errors.

[RockBass]

I've found that what helps me is listening to some of the classic rock drummers. Bands like Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, The Rolling Stones, The Beatles. Simple, yet articulate stuff that fits well with the song.

 

Remember that it's not about you showing off your stuff, it's about the lead singer.....I mean, the band. It's about the band.

[FitchFY]

Only use one arm.

 

 

[ArtVandelay]

Make a concerted effort to listen and understand the song while playing it. If you can hear and comprehend the lyrics or you can grasp what the guitarist is trying to do during the solo, you're probably not overplaying.

 

As musicians, we're playing music so people can listen to it. So it's wise to try and listen to it yourself.

[sidereal]

We shouldn't forget to exhibit personality though. Usually, the problem with overplaying is in the fills (or, as was said, in too much cymbal crashing). With this in mind, I always try to put my personality into the groove rather than in fills. Accents, dynamics, different ways of approaching a pattern, etc... just to give things that hint of spice and keep things interesting. What you don't want to do is give in to the temptation to hit a tom and crash every 8 measures.

[Old Steve]

Listen to a guy like Carter Beauford...he's all over the place, BUT it still grooves....proof that you can play a lot of notes without overplaying. Now go listen to Keith Moon...THAT, my friend, is overplaying. Still, Moonie's sound was an integral part of the Who's music.

 

No simple answer here. In my mind, recording and live are two different worlds. You can get away with more stuff in a live situation, especially if you're feeding off of the energy between the crowd and the band. In a recording situation, however, that interaction isn't there, so you need to present the song in the way that best captures the mood of the music. In most cases, crazy solos and lots of commotion lose out to playing with dynamics and much more subtle fills, saving your "overplaying" for those relatively few times where you have some kind of signature fill.

 

When the little red light goes on, think more about time and dynamics....if you're doing that, you'll probably avoid overplaying.

 

Of course, if your engineer/producer is any good, he can just take out a couple measures where you aren't overplaying, loop 'em, and just put that in over the top of your non-stop soloing.

[fesswrx]

Speaking of too much cymbal. Does anyone else hate it when a drumer rides a crash for like the whole song? and I really hate it when it is some super bright cymbal. It just drives me nuts. I went out and found a nice 18" mild medium-light crash to ride on if I feel it is necessary (which isn't too often) just because I realy dont like that sound washing over everything else.

[backtodrum]

I learned the not over playing thing the hard way. I used to playout a lot on the early eighties. I was young and relitivly in experiencd. I can tell you that I over played then. I took 20 years off from the drums and did other things (marry and have a family). As I have in the last 10 years come back to drumming as a hobby, I have learned over the years how foolish I was back in the day. Yeah I had chops etc. But I didn't know how to groove then. As I have rediscovered the instrument my priorities have changed and I listen much more criticly, And I feel I play for the music only. I listen intently to the bass player and lock in to what he is doing. My since of time has matured and I am an all around better musician than before. I play dynamiclly now, as before I was just loud all of the time. I think allot of my awakening happened as a result of laying off the years that I did, and maturing as a listener and player. I have been told over and over that I am much better now than I was back in the glory days when I thought I was all that.

 

I will say as others have. When you record something and play it back and listen. It will be readily apparent when you hear it if you have over played or not. Same goes for playing live. I do the same thing. I record each performance and listen to it. As a result of doing this I could probably be accused of not playing enough. But I really am commited that my playing compliment the music rather than get in the way.

[1001gear]

 

Originally posted by fesswrx Speaking of too much cymbal. Does anyone else hate it when a drumer rides a crash for like the whole song? and I really hate it when it is some super bright cymbal. It just drives me nuts. I went out and found a nice 18" mild medium-light crash to ride on if I feel it is necessary (which isn't too often) just because I realy dont like that sound washing over everything else.

 

 

Depends. When Tre Cool or AVH do it, it's for spectral support. Like a keyboard part. Bashing doesn't have to be a crude experience.

[pjb]

Originally posted by FitchFY Only use one arm.

 

 

 

He never overplays.