Members Miskatonic Posted October 18, 2008 Members Share Posted October 18, 2008 I'm curious to know what some of the advantages and disadvantages are of playing two single pedals on two bass drums as opposed to playing a double pedal on one bass drum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members D Carroll Posted October 18, 2008 Members Share Posted October 18, 2008 When you use a double, you will loose a lot of resonance of the kick... When you use two singles, both kick heads have to be tuned the exact same, or it will sound funky... in a bad way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miskatonic Posted October 18, 2008 Author Members Share Posted October 18, 2008 Ahh OK cool. I'll ask another question so I don't waste space by creating a new thread. Is a large floor Tom going to have a more pronounced sound than a large bass drum. Say a 20x18 floor Tom (width by depth) vs a 22x20 bass drum? Which is going to cut through the mix better? If you want something that has a lot of boom but is articulate enough to be heard through the mix, what works better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members marko46 Posted October 18, 2008 Members Share Posted October 18, 2008 I'm curious to know what some of the advantages and disadvantages are of playing two single pedals on two bass drums as opposed to playing a double pedal on one bass drum. I agree with D Carrol. I have both set-ups. The feel is different, and when I play double pedal and switch to double kic/single pedal, it feels a little different for a short time. But I've done it enough, it's not a big deal. Typically the slave pedal responds a little bit different then the master pedal, even with top of the line, which I have. It's not a great deal by any means, so don't get me wrong, I adjust quickly.The other thing, for me at least, is the position of my feet, rather the distance apart. My kics are 24"x20", so my legs are spread a bit farther apart when playing two singles. The advantage is, both of my pedals respond exactly the same, (Axis LB's). The advantage of the single kic/double pedal, (Eliminators) is that the set-up is more compact and my feet aren't quite as far apart. This is kinda of a big deal as I have three pedals for my left foot- kic / H.Hat /remote Hi-Hat. Some do it different, but I like this layout and am the most efficient with it. It's Remote outside, Kic pedal and Hi-Hat pedal, in that order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 2xBass Posted October 18, 2008 Members Share Posted October 18, 2008 Ahh OK cool. I'll ask another question so I don't waste space by creating a new thread. Is a large floor Tom going to have a more pronounced sound than a large bass drum. Say a 20x18 floor Tom (width by depth) vs a 22x20 bass drum? Which is going to cut through the mix better? If you want something that has a lot of boom but is articulate enough to be heard through the mix, what works better? 20x18 is massive, I have a 16x16 floor tom and it has more boom than by bass drums from the way I tune it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jenksdrummer Posted October 18, 2008 Members Share Posted October 18, 2008 When you use a double, you will loose a lot of resonance of the kick...When you use two singles, both kick heads have to be tuned the exact same, or it will sound funky... in a bad way... You get the same thing with a double pedal. At least, I do. ------- I'd rather go with a single - takes up less space, less to haul around, and it gets the job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members turdadactyl Posted October 18, 2008 Members Share Posted October 18, 2008 One of the biggest differences with two kicks vs a double pedal is having to lug another big ass drum around every night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SYMBOLIC Posted October 18, 2008 Members Share Posted October 18, 2008 It really depends on what you are looking to do. Single kick with a double pedal, at high bpms will have a higher pitch, when compared to two kicks at the same bpm. The feel of the slave pedal can be an issue, and generally the slave beater is hitting the batter head off center, which causes a change in tone and feel. If you are going to trigger your kicks, you can run into tracking issues at high bpms, and false/double triggering can be an issue. Some people feel that a double pedal on a single kick can be "faster" than using to kicks.With two kicks you do have the extra kick to lug around, but you can have both pedals set up the same with no lag on the second pedal. You can have tuning issue, if you have difficulty with tuning. Two kicks are more expensive than a double pedal. The foot print of the kit might be slightly wider with two kicks. This isn't always the rule, b/c my kit on it doesn't have any affect on my set up. Ahh OK cool. I'll ask another question so I don't waste space by creating a new thread. Is a large floor Tom going to have a more pronounced sound than a large bass drum. Say a 20x18 floor Tom (width by depth) vs a 22x20 bass drum? Which is going to cut through the mix better? If you want something that has a lot of boom but is articulate enough to be heard through the mix, what works better? I think the kick will have more pressence b/c you have more force behind the strike. Extra large toms (18"+) don't really sound that huge unless they are mic'd. Keep in mind that something that has a lot of boom will probably not be that articulate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 2xBass Posted October 19, 2008 Members Share Posted October 19, 2008 Plus, two bass drums make you look ike a badass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miskatonic Posted October 19, 2008 Author Members Share Posted October 19, 2008 First off, a 20"x18" FT is friggin" HUGE! You may as well go to a Gong drum at that point. Having said that, I have a 18"x16" FT which is very deep and has a pronounced boom. But, you're sticking with a stick as opposed to a beater on a pedal, so the attack is different altogether. I don't know what you're driving at with your question? Well I've just been messing around with writing some riffs, some melodies, just whatever comes to my head and whatever I stumble upon while learning new scales. I'm also using Guitar Pro to mess around with drum tracks. I'd like to have that massive boom for some of the percussive ideas I have that are basically a single kick and a 14 x 14 rack, a 16x16 floor, a 18x18 floor, and either the bigger floor or a big kick (like 24x22). I'd hate to call it "tribal" but it's kind of a mix between that and the kettle drums used for classical music. Some of the music is straight forward, while other stuff is just messing around until something weird emerges. I've dabbled a little bit on a song which is basically a cross between metal and marching band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members marko46 Posted October 19, 2008 Members Share Posted October 19, 2008 What's your kic size? 22"x20"? Npt sure by your posts. If already own an 18"x18" FT, that's plenty big for BOOM. How you're tuning everything sounds like more of the issue. Play around with your toms. I typically start with my high tom and adjust it first when changing pitch, and work down from there. Also, keep in mind your reso, higher, same or lower tuning. It sounds to me like you want a pitch drop from the drum when you strike it, so bring your reso tuning down lower then your batter for that drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miskatonic Posted October 19, 2008 Author Members Share Posted October 19, 2008 I actually don't have a kit yet, it's all brainstorming and messing around with guitar player. I ran a drum making business recently so I've become pretty familiar with the drums inside and out, the manufacturing process etc. I just can't afford the kit I want at the moment. I've messed around with several of the kits we made, so I've had a chance to hear different heads (We used only Evans), and have heard the kits live. I'm just gathering as much information as from the knowledgeable guys like yourself, so I can brainstorm my ideas. This is the mock up of the sizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Nick the DSM Posted October 19, 2008 Members Share Posted October 19, 2008 wow, that would an incredible kit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members marko46 Posted October 20, 2008 Members Share Posted October 20, 2008 So, is that 3 kics there I see, and it would be set-up as drawn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miskatonic Posted October 20, 2008 Author Members Share Posted October 20, 2008 So, is that 3 kicks there I see, and it would be set-up as drawn? Yep 3 kicks and that would be the basic setup, though the 14x8 Snare might be on the right hand side and not the left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members marko46 Posted October 20, 2008 Members Share Posted October 20, 2008 O.K. How do you plan on playing the center kic, one of those "Wil Calhoun" endorsed pedals. Plus your gonna have to stretch big time to reach the 20" kics. How about the Hi-Hat? Remote? Or attach to one of the 20's? That is one big friggin' foot print. My kit's big, but that's Alex VanHalen big and one of his kics is a refrigerator. I'm not being critical here, just curious. You must have some huge clubs/venues to play in. So your original question is really a moot point. You're gonna need both a double pedal and singles. An IC double won't really work on that set-up. Your foot can't get to the pedal on the 24". Interesting......................................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members D Carroll Posted October 20, 2008 Members Share Posted October 20, 2008 I would advise against 3 kicks, it sounds as if you re relatively new to playing, you will want the kit to be a cozy as possible while you learn. No doubt that kit will look cool on stage, but if you take it to a studio, they will tell you to pick what you need, because they aren't going to mic all of that. Go to the DW kit builder to see if you can even set up such a kit, in any playable fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miskatonic Posted October 20, 2008 Author Members Share Posted October 20, 2008 O.K. How do you plan on playing the center kic, one of those "Wil Calhoun" endorsed pedals. Plus your gonna have to stretch big time to reach the 20" kics. How about the Hi-Hat? Remote? Or attach to one of the 20's? That is one big friggin' foot print. My kit's big, but that's Alex VanHalen big and one of his kics is a refrigerator.I'm not being critical here, just curious. You must have some huge clubs/venues to play in.So your original question is really a moot point. You're gonna need both a double pedal and singles. An IC double won't really work on that set-up. Your foot can't get to the pedal on the 24".Interesting......................................................... I don't really know if I would ever want to play live. I just want the equipment necessary to write and record music. I want to become proficient in enough instruments so that I can do the majority of the work myself and in a rare occasion maybe hire someone to play the parts I can't. Let's just say that creativity is a drug to me, a healthy one at that. My mind is constantly brainstorming ideas, whether they relate to music, screenplays, novels or what have you. My goal with musical writing is to satisfy both writing my own take on metal, as well as trying to come up with oddball experimental stuff. I'm going to do a complete soundtrack based on a series of dreams I've had. However I'm not knowledgeable enough at the moment to delve into that. This is purely a personal creative outlet, and may seem excessive. That's part of the reason why I was asking about the bigger floor tom. It may end up that I can get all I want out of the 18x18 and anything else will be unnecessary. That mock up was done a few months ago, but I do see the futility of trying to put three kicks like that. The more I know the more successful I'll be. And what better place to acquire knowledge than HC? I would advise against 3 kicks, it sounds as if you re relatively new to playing, you will want the kit to be a cozy as possible while you learn. No doubt that kit will look cool on stage, but if you take it to a studio, they will tell you to pick what you need, because they aren't going to mic all of that. Go to the DW kit builder to see if you can even set up such a kit, in any playable fashion. I'm going to build the kit piece by piece, getting a new drum when I've become competent in playing what I have. I'm going to be picking up a snare soon so I can practice rudiments. After that I'll invest in a single kick as a hi-hat setup. After that I'll start adding Tom Toms. I may go the route with one of the big boys (Pearl, Yamaha, DW, etc.), or I may go the custom route and use an independent drum builder, like Phattie Drums. If I was loaded I'd look into something custom from Ayotte. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted October 20, 2008 Members Share Posted October 20, 2008 Definitely the doable. Less baggage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members marko46 Posted October 20, 2008 Members Share Posted October 20, 2008 Just a suggestion, but why don't you start with this: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/document?base_pid=449191&cpd=0OEY&doc_id=99371&index=0 Add a Gong Drum. Mapex makes one. Get some good cymbals and start from there. That's a great kit. The kit's you named are high end for sure. You could go with the Saturns also. A lot of guys on here have them, including me, and for the $, their tough to beat on a high end kit IMO. If you don't care for the pedal, sell it and but some I'C's. It's great that you have all this creativity, but having never been a drummer really, it seems to make more sense to start with the Pro-M's. Their great drums. Then, you could keep them as a second kit, or sell them very easily to up-grade. Just my 2 cents man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jenksdrummer Posted October 20, 2008 Members Share Posted October 20, 2008 Kit = Good luck....no offense. I just see a green acrylic tama kit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members marko46 Posted October 20, 2008 Members Share Posted October 20, 2008 Kit = Good luck....no offense. I just see a green acrylic tama kit... :lol::lol: But that's in Japan right? HUGE shipping charge I would think:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ulank Posted October 20, 2008 Members Share Posted October 20, 2008 Is that a drum layout or a snazzy new offensive formation in football? If you're just going to be writing/recording, I wouldn't really go to the lengths of setting it up like that. Having three kicks will just make things more difficult in both playing and recording. Now, sure, if you want to have a great variety of sounds at your disposal, acquire all the dang drums you want. But from there, I would determine what sound you're after, and setup a kit that complements what you want to do musically and sonically for each song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miskatonic Posted October 20, 2008 Author Members Share Posted October 20, 2008 Kit = Good luck....no offense. I just see a green acrylic tama kit... Nah, I'd most likely use Keller maple shells and have a fade or burst. A green fade or maybe a tobacco burst. I initially thought to have black fading from both sides to a blood red middle. Not sure how that would turn out though since using black on wood isn't the same as black on metal or black acrylic. RCI Starlite makes some interesting drums but I'm not that interested in acrylics. If I did I'd have black drums with a wide verde ithaca racing stripe in the middle. I'm a noob when it comes to all this stuff so no offense taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miskatonic Posted October 20, 2008 Author Members Share Posted October 20, 2008 Is that a drum layout or a snazzy new offensive formation in football? If you're just going to be writing/recording, I wouldn't really go to the lengths of setting it up like that. Having three kicks will just make things more difficult in both playing and recording. Now, sure, if you want to have a great variety of sounds at your disposal, acquire all the dang drums you want. But from there, I would determine what sound you're after, and setup a kit that complements what you want to do musically and sonically for each song. I definitely don't have the Terry Bozzio mindset, I promise. I think I'll nix the middle kick anyway. Funny thing is I've got enough Keller shells to make four 5 piece kits, including heads, snare wires, lugs, tension rods, etc, sitting in the basement. I had a boatload of Nickel Drum Works throw offs but I returned them to Greg since I didn't need them. I also gave back a bunch of chrome and black chrome triple-flange heads. Been slowly selling stuff via ebay to recoup losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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