What vocal coaching program is better?

[CosmicDolphin]

Having tried...

 

Sing With Freedom - Per Bristow

 

Singing Success - Bret Manning

 

Superior Singing Method - Aron Anastasi

 

I think they all have some merit, but I still wasn't getting getting the results I wanted and after four years or so I eventually plucked up the courage to find a local singing teacher and have one to one lessons.

 

I wish I'd done them years ago to be honest and not spent the money on online courses. I've probably spent more on the personal lessons over the past 20 months than all the courses put together but in half the time I've improved way way more than I ever would have on my own with the online stuff.

 

My teacher identified problems that weren't even addressed in the other courses and I had some real bad habits to get rid of and she gave me the right exercises to help. It's no good doing lots of exercises on your own if you are not performing them correctly , it takes a trained ear to spot and help correct these things.

 

I know all these guys recommend Skype lessons etc. but they are usually at the higher end of the market and if you do your research you can probably find someone just as good at more competitive rates AND attend in person.

 

I still have a LONG way to go but if anybody wants to PM me I have a number of before/after recordings done in my home studio.

[choski2]

I tried Aaron Anastasi's Superior Singing Method and it helped me a LOT. I think it's a great program.

[CosmicDolphin]

I tried Aaron Anastasi's Superior Singing Method and it helped me a LOT. I think it's a great program.

 

There's lots of content and it's relatively inexpensive for the material you get but the problem with ALL of the online courses is you have to be able to self diagnose your problems which is extremely difficult if not impossible for the people they are aimed at.

 

I would say most people who can't sing well don't really understand WHY they sound bad, they don't have a trained ear....All I knew was I sucked and although I sucked somewhat less after several years of working through these programmes I have found the progress under one to one tuition has been far more rapid.

 

It is much harder to stand in front of someone and sing and make all the horrible embarrassing mistakes but the feedback of a good teacher is well worth it.

[kickingtone]

I would say most people who can't sing well don't really understand WHY they sound bad' date=' they don't have a trained ear....All I knew was I sucked and although I sucked somewhat less after several years of working through these programmes I have found the progress under one to one tuition has been far more rapid.[/quote']

 

First hurdle is to try to eliminate the bias we tend to have for our own voice. You have to learn to know what you want to achieve, and develop a critical and impartial attitude. (If a coach is dictating to you what you want to achieve, it is a whole different ballgame.) You need to be able to hear and pay attention to the bad things, and the good things (not telling yourself that you "suck"), in your own voice.

 

Secondly, "a trained ear" involves being able to associate what you hear, with the execution of the technique you are using. Just as a professional golfer can know (without his coach telling him) that he accidentally hooked his shot because his hips collapsed or he tensed his wrist, so a singer with a trained ear can know that a note wobbled because he didn't anchor his larynx, or his placement was incorrect and he ended up pushing. Equally, he can associate a good sounding note with particular execution of technique.

 

You get a much deeper, more complete, and more enduring and independent understanding of these things if you go looking for them and discover them for yourself. I would not advise getting a tutor for the purpose of replacing that journey of discovery.

 

It is much harder to stand in front of someone and sing and make all the horrible embarrassing mistakes but the feedback of a good teacher is well worth it.

 

Why would you be embarrassed? As long as you don't think deep down that you are better than you are, nothing should come as an embarrassment. It is OK to make whatever mistake that comes with your level of competence, unless you think you are already better than that level. Then you have to come down to earth, instead of getting embarrassed in cloud cuckoo land.

 

Another thing embarrassment does is put people in denial. It is one of those factors that corrupts the hearing and makes people biased when listening to themselves sing. The brain, rather than be the source of its own embarrassment, can subconsciously choose to simply not pay attention to errors. The effect can be so powerful that if completely fools the singer.

 

So, again, I wouldn't say that the problem is not having a coach, but one of attitude.

[CosmicDolphin]

Hi Kickingtone

 

Thanks for your detailed reply. We obviously have different experiences, but that's cool..we are not all the same and are on our own journey. All I can share is my own experience so I will elaborate a little further.

 

I wrote my first songs in the late 80's and recorded them to a little 4 track. I could make music with my guitar and midi instruments etc. but I never had any natural ability to sing but there was nobody else I knew that I could get to sing them and it was just something I liked doing so I just sort of carried on and in the early 90's got myself a book about How To Sing, I forget the exact title but I think I got it mail order from the back of Sound On Sound Magazine..it didn't help, I couldn't really get to grips with any of what it was trying to explain. There were no audio examples supplied with it but quite a few diagrams etc.

 

In 90's worked with quite a few bands, recorded demos, did live mixing for people etc. I was the sound guy but I still made my own music and put an album together with a buddy of mine around 97..the singing was quite sub-standard really but we enjoyed making it and we got into a couple of music magazines where they review readers demos etc.

 

Around the early 2000's I bought another book called " Set Your Voice Free " by Roger Love. this one came with exercises on a CD which I did for about 6 months ..didn't really make any difference to my singing as far as I could tell.

 

I carried on learning about production throughout the noughties , I mixed a lot of music for other people I knew or met online but I still wanted to be a better singer so I followed some of the Youtube Vocal Coach type channels which led to me eventually doing the 3 courses I mentioned in my first post. I spent 3 years or so going through them altogether and I did find they helped improve my voice a little I seemed to hit a bit of a wall where it didn't seem to matter how many hours of practice I put in each week the results were not really changing.

 

In 2014 I had a Birthday coming up and the only present I could think of was some professional singing lessons, so I did some research online until I found someone that had all the experience and credentials I was comfortable with. For the first couple of months I went every week, then went stepped down to every couple of weeks and recently I cut it down to a monthly hour long lesson.

 

Now my voice has improved a lot..I still wouldn't say I was a "good" singer but now if I play somebody a new song they don't say " well I like all the music, but you should get a better singer " ...they actually talk about whether they like the song or not as a whole..so that's progress.

 

First hurdle is to try to eliminate the bias we tend to have for our own voice. You have to learn to know what you want to achieve, and develop a critical and impartial attitude. (If a coach is dictating to you what you want to achieve, it is a whole different ballgame.) You need to be able to hear and pay attention to the bad things, and the good things (not telling yourself that you "suck"), in your own voice.

 

I agree that you need to be objective about your voice, but I couldn't tell you WHY my singing was poor ( and there were plenty of friends and family that would back me up on the fact that it was unpleasant to listen to ) , all I knew was that I couldn't sing very well ..something was wrong and all the books, Cd's and courses online hadn't addressed whatever those problems were.

 

It wasn't until someone with expertise & experience started to pinpoint various issues that I started to learn why I sounded bad and could start to undo some of my bad habits and work on changing things.

 

​

Secondly, "a trained ear" involves being able to associate what you hear, with the execution of the technique you are using. Just as a professional golfer can know (without his coach telling him) that he accidentally hooked his shot because his hips collapsed or he tensed his wrist, so a singer with a trained ear can know that a note wobbled because he didn't anchor his larynx, or his placement was incorrect and he ended up pushing. Equally, he can associate a good sounding note with particular execution of technique.

 

With all my previous experience I would say I do have a fairly good ear for music...but it didn't help with singing.

 

I'm every bit as bad at golf as I was at singing, It's 50/50 as to whether the ball leaves the tee or I make a hole in the ground and if I do happen to hit the darn thing it goes off to the left every time. I did once read a golf book and maybe I learned to hold the club correctly but that was about it. I'm sure though if I did the equivalent of what I did with singing and booked some lessons with the Pro at my local course I'd get better more quickly because they can give instant feedback and get you to make the adjustments right ? Then it's practising those corrections so you have a new muscle memory that replaces the old faulty method.

 

Yes I agree once you get good at something you can start self correcting and understand why things may work or not but maybe you've just never been that bad at anything that you don't even have a frame of reference of where to start. I learnt about things I was doing wrong that I hadn't even considered or heard mentioned in the materials I was trying to learn from.

 

Until I had the feedback from the experts/pro I couldn't even hear it myself. Luckily I've got years worth of my singing recorded so it's easy for me to go back and hear these things now with new insight.

 

​

 

You get a much deeper, more complete, and more enduring and independent understanding of these things if you go looking for them and discover them for yourself. I would not advise getting a tutor for the purpose of replacing that journey of discovery.

 

I understand what you are saying but not everybody is like that, personally I would never have discovered these things for myself.. the mileage of the individual will vary here for sure..I'm more of a technically minded person...I like everything explained anatomically, I don't do well with abstract concepts either and need to understand things in a nuts and bolts way.

 

Why would you be embarrassed? As long as you don't think deep down that you are better than you are, nothing should come as an embarrassment. It is OK to make whatever mistake that comes with your level of competence, unless you think you are already better than that level. Then you have to come down to earth, instead of getting embarrassed in cloud cuckoo land.

 

Ha ! Why would I NOT be embarrassed ? It's one step above Glossophobia ..fear of public speaking...which is many people's worst phobia.

 

If I sing through one of my own songs for the first time at a lesson I'm often shaking and have to hide it. I find the whole thing uncomfortable and self conscious and I dislike getting things wrong in front of others, I'm also not a very expressive or emotive person which doesn't help ( unless I'm playing poker.)

 

Another thing embarrassment does is put people in denial. It is one of those factors that corrupts the hearing and makes people biased when listening to themselves sing. The brain, rather than be the source of its own embarrassment, can subconsciously choose to simply not pay attention to errors. The effect can be so powerful that if completely fools the singer.

 

Maybe you don't get easily embarrassed , but I know I do...my wife says things to people all the time that make me have to walk away out of embarrassment. Or I park my car around the corner out of sight if I've gone to see a client and my car is dirty etc. I've even refused to go on stage and collect awards for work stuff because I don't want everyone staring at me.

 

But I don't think it puts me in denial about my singing otherwise I wouldn't pay for courses or lessons to get better.

 

So, again, I wouldn't say that the problem is not having a coach, but one of attitude.

 

I disagree on that one, I had the same attitude towards the courses and personal lessons. i.e. I'm quite persistent and determined but the results were very different and that's purely down to feedback, as the exercises are all broadly similar and I spend about the same time each week practising.

 

It transpired I wasn't even doing the most basic of exercises correctly, a set of DVD's or videos can't know that so can't allow for or correct it.

 

Like I said at the start everyone is different so I can only say how it has been for me, in a way I'm glad I started out learning by myself as at least by the time I had one to one lessons the scales and some of the concepts weren't completely alien to me but the proof is in the pudding as they say and I will happily send anyone a before / after that wants to PM me.

 

 

 

 

 

[CosmicDolphin]

Dose Brett Manning run the singing success TV forum?

 

No other people do it for him

 

[kickingtone]

Thanks, CosmicDolphin. Reading about people's background and experience is very instructive. I don't have the wealth of musical background that you have, but here is my own experience..

 

I have always liked singing from when I was a child, but it was always a casual thing. Dedicated training never crossed my mind. Also, I think that my parents associated pop music with drugs and decadence :-) so they had their beady eyes on me, and soon started to discourage me from taking too much interest. So, learning to play the guitar was out of the question, although the violin would have been OK, had I been interested!

 

At uni, I would sing a lot, casually, everywhere I went. I was always singing, and sometimes lots of people would join in. So, as you can imagine, my embarrassment threshold was.... non existent in that respect. Flip side, I liked to hear other folk sing, too, almost regardless of ability.

 

About four years ago, I decided to train to sing as a hobby. I just started reading up on online material. I learned how you hear yourself differently to how others hear you. So I recorded myself, listened, and went right back to basics.

 

The first samples I posted online for review were... ...nursery rhymes....a cappella....just to discover if I could actually hit the notes -- nowhere to hide -- no emotional context to disguise mistakes. (And, once again, a no-embarrassment threshold required ) Thank you to all the folk who gave constructive feedback, and didn't knock an honest attempt at improvement.

 

As for feedback, it has ranged through those years from "pitchy and untrained", through "ok for a choir, but too weak to be solo", to "what are you waiting for, start a band". And none of it is correlated to the length of time I'd spent training, (except that I have not recently got the "untrained" comment.) What that tells me is that you have to find the right audience, and not be too hasty in believing that you "suck".

 

For the first two years, a lot of the advice I got was going against my intuition, so I found myself experimenting and working things out for myself. Then I stumbled upon a video by Franco Tenelli, who is a classical tenor who posts many instructive videos online. I was quite freaked out when I found that 90% of the method in his videos was stuff I was already trying to do in my experiments. Everything made sense. I could hardly believe it when I got a third of the way through the material. But when I found more and more stuff falling easily into place, it was just surreal. Funny thing is that I had never been interested in classical singing or classical sound. Yet, I keep finding that what the old-school classical tenors are saying is what I had already started to find out on my own. The latest is Michael Trimble. So I have a lot of confidence that my experiments and what I am doing is not an aberration destined to fail.

 

I am not suggesting to anyone that they shouldn't have face-to-face tuition. I am only suggesting that you are most strongly placed when you bring your own experience to the table, both in assessing whether the tutor is compatible, and in having a grasp of what the tutor is saying. Without that, you are basically asking to be programmed, which has all manner of pitfall.

 

As for the question of "embarrassment", I hear what you say, and I know I spoke in generalizations. It's kind of a pet theory of mine.. My favorite example is a girl I used to know. She was always immaculately turned out, never a hair out of place. She was a quiet, sweet type to all appearances, until you hear her unsheath her tongue. Man! You should hear her joke about people who didn't take care with their appearance. You would never believe that such sarcastic wit could issue from such a girl's mouth. And, guess what, she was a victim of her own behaviour, afraid of others like herself, and what they may be thinking. She once turned up to work with her hair newly done, and it must have cost her a penny or two. I said something totally innocent about it and she stared at me momentarily, as if I were a UFO. Then she shot out of the room and returned minutes later with her $200 hairdo combed down! :-) LOL! I couldn't tell you one hairstyle from the next, but she took it all seriously.

[FelipeCarvalho]

Voice programs just do not work, you may get some initial clues on technique but without individual attention the main part of technique simply won´t happen. And even on the small part you can aquire from the program, you won´t be sure if you are doing it right.

 

 

If you want to learn on your own, the best path is to record and listen to what you are doing, trying to improve quality and to be comfortable. Won´t be fast, most likely will hit roadblocks you won´t overcome alone, but at least its something that can be worked and later can be used in your benefit.

[CosmicDolphin]

I am not suggesting to anyone that they shouldn't have face-to-face tuition.

 

Have you ever had any one on one singing lessons yourself ?... I originally answered this thread because I've experienced both sides so I have a little insight.

 

For those that haven't the best analogy I can give is it's a bit like like trying to learn to drive from a DVD vs having a human Instructor in the car with you.

 

You are most strongly placed when you bring your own experience to the table, both in assessing whether the tutor is compatible, and in having a grasp of what the tutor is saying.

 

It's wise to look around and do your homework, not every teacher is for every student even though they may be good ( did you ever see the movie Whiplash ? haha ) . Most will give a free introductory session to see how you feel about going further.

 

I don't know whether it was better to have learned exercises and jargon by myself prior to any lessons because I'd picked up some bad habits from the DVD's and it probably would have been quicker to start from scratch.

 

Let me say it wasn't the fault of the DVD material , I was just doing it wrong. I thought I was doing exactly what they were showing...turned out I wasn't !

 

you are basically asking to be programmed, which has all manner of pitfall.

 

Same with Singing Success and the rest of them....they are still installing "their" ideas of what singing should be...and they don't all agree with each other.

 

Anyway do you still have the links to your singing , It would be interesting to hear what you have done.

[kickingtone]

 

Have you ever had any one on one singing lessons yourself ?... I originally answered this thread because I've experienced both sides so I have a little insight.

 

For those that haven't the best analogy I can give is it's a bit like like trying to learn to drive from a DVD vs having a human Instructor in the car with you.

 

This is the have-you-actually-read-the-holy-book argument. As you said before, we only speak for ourselves. But we can answer back the evangelist who is telling us his way is the one-and-only-way if only you knew it by practising it. You only need one counterexample, your own personal experience, to be able to disprove a dogmatic position.

 

For some people, a singing instructor is a must, but not for everyone. It is the same with driving. There are people who have never had any formal driving instruction, take their test and pass first time. There are kids who steal their parent's vehicle and learn to drive it on their own, etc. everybody is different. Moi? I am not in any kind of helter-skelter hurry. I am very happy with the progress I have made in singing and the change in feedback.

 

I have not had one-on-one singing lessons, but I have seen videos of them. I find many of them a joke. But people are different. I remember asking this girl why she got a gym instructor when she knew the routine. She replied that she wouldn't have the motivation to do it, otherwise! £100 a week (two kids).....ok...

 

As I said, I am not holding the dogmatic position. I am answering against it. Nobody has the answer as to what is best for everybody at any particular time.

 

It's wise to look around and do your homework, not every teacher is for every student even though they may be good ( did you ever see the movie Whiplash ? haha ) . Most will give a free introductory session to see how you feel about going further.

 

You don't necessarily need a free lesson. The method they promote, or how they promote it, can be enough of a clue for you to look elsewhere.

 

And as I said, the only tutors I have found that make solid sense to me have been famous tenors. And it wasn't due to some psychological bias or appeal to authority. I had no idea who they were, before. All I had to go on was what they were saying. I sense that my judgment is doing a lot right if it can pick these people out of the fray. And I was already experimenting along the lines of appoggio breathing before I knew of its existence. I experimented because I wanted to find out precisely what it was that was making me intuitively reject the other techniques some self-styled tutors were promoting. So, it was never a question of me blindly following a technique. I was being rewarded for my own prior effort.

 

I don't know whether it was better to have learned exercises and jargon by myself prior to any lessons because I'd picked up some bad habits from the DVD's and it probably would have been quicker to start from scratch.

 

Let me say it wasn't the fault of the DVD material , I was just doing it wrong. I thought I was doing exactly what they were showing...turned out I wasn't !

 

All that means is that you weren't doing what was intended and the penny didn't drop ;-) You can't project that on everybody else. Some people are very good at understanding instructions. Others would get it wrong, but know that it doesn't feel right, and stop. As you said, you are a nuts-and-bolts person and prefer a more pedagogical approach.

 

Even if your tutor affirms that you are doing what is intended, so what? There are other tutors who may tell you that the exercise is detrimental. At some point, you have to use your own nous or intuition to make your own decision, or be at the mercy of caprice. Given the number of dead ends you can be driven down, "starting from scratch" with tuition doesn't solve the problem. Some people end up blindly going through several tutors. Others may be "lucky" and only go through a few.

 

And, in any case, for me, it is not about haste. My original point was that a tutor cannot replace your journey of trial-and-error. It is better to recognize the effort you need to put in to minimize error on your own. Otherwise, you'd only end up trialing a gaggle of tutors.

 

 

Same with Singing Success and the rest of them....they are still installing "their" ideas of what singing should be...and they don't all agree with each other.

 

Yep. If you follow anything blindly, without doing your own legwork and exercising your own judgment, it can become a process of "installation".

 

Anyway do you still have the links to your singing ' date=' It would be interesting to hear what you have done.[/quote']

 

I don't have comparisons online. I only post samples on very specific questions, and I take them down after a while.

 

I do keep them on my computer, and I am very happy with the progress I have made over the few years I have been singing. This time last year, there were a lot of things that would work one day and then break for a while, without me knowing why. Now, I find myself being able to listen, identify and fix a lot of things immediately. It is a major milestone and proves that my understanding is so much better than a year ago. So this is huge progress that you wouldn't even be able to tell from a clip. This year will be like practising juggling -- knowing what the moves are, but facing the challenge of doing all the things in parallel, consistently.

 

Oddly enough, if I were to get a tutor, now, it means that the lessons would be far more efficient. ;-)

[CosmicDolphin]

Oddly enough, if I were to get a tutor, now, it means that the lessons would be far more efficient. ;-)

 

Or they may have to spend extra time undoing bad habits you've given yourself.

 

Impossible to say without hearing anything from you. They do say feedback is the breakfast of champions though.

 

 

[kickingtone]

 

Or they may have to spend extra time undoing bad habits you've given yourself.

 

Impossible to say without hearing anything from you. They do say feedback is the breakfast of champions though.

 

 

 

Ha! ha! Mr. Negativity. Talk about looking for things to go wrong!

 

A behaviour is more likely to become a "habit" if it is simply trained or programmed into you. When you put effort in yourself, your behaviour is better informed, more controllable, and you more easily adjust and unpick the behaviour when you need to.

 

Also if you spend some time looking online, you can see several examples of instructors purportedly undoing the "bad habits" other INSTRUCTORS taught their students. There is serious fur flying. And whether it is a bad habit or not often boils down to whether the instructors are friends or foes. If you don't look out for yourself, you can become a sucker for all that.

 

I recall one case of a girl on another forum whose natural tone gave an interesting colour to her singing. She found an instructor who told her, "yes, nice, but you have to go back to basics". By time he had finished with her (and he confirmed that she had "successfully" completed his course) she asked him where that quality to her voice went. He told her that it had been important to remove it in order to complete the basics, and now she can "put it back in"..................for a fee. I have to be honest with you, I felt sorry for her (her posts were harrowing) at the same time as shrugging my shoulders at her naivety. I don't think she ever got her voice back the way she wanted, even though she naively continued to follow the instructor's advice. She complained frequently on the forum at the same time. Stupid thing was, that even during the course she had had her doubts about how she was sounding. She was told the standard thing, "yeah, it sounds ugly now, but, trust me, when you've mastered it, it will sound beautiful! ) Trust is a bitch.

[CosmicDolphin]

Ha! ha! Mr. Negativity. Talk about looking for things to go wrong!

 

A behaviour is more likely to become a "habit" if it is simply trained or programmed into you. When you put effort in yourself, your behaviour is better informed, more controllable, and you more easily adjust and unpick the behaviour when you need to.

 

Not negative, quite the opposite. If I was already doing all the right things then I'd be recognised as a good vocalist...but I'm not...and I have ears so I know this to be true.. .. I accept that certain things I do are faulty techniques and seek guidance to correct them. To me that's a positive thing.

 

If I feel sick, I can choose to go and see a Doctor or I could Google the symptoms and diagnose myself and go to the drug store for a cure of my own choosing. Which method do you think would be more likely to correctly diagnose and prescribe the correct medicine?

 

PS - Nothing wrong with habits... Motivation is what gets you started. Habit is what keeps you going.

 

[kickingtone]

PS - Nothing wrong with habits... Motivation is what gets you started. Habit is what keeps you going.

 

I think habits are lazy, but we can't humanly do without them. With things that I value, I say avoid habit at all costs!

 

Yeah, but we are not disputing the act of seeking advice. The contention is about how you receive the advice and to what extent you temper it with your own discretion. Being open to advice and criticism does not mean becoming a follower. You know, people do follow a doctor's advice and then sometimes later blame the doctor for not telling them that a drug has such and such a side effect. I don't understand that, when they could have just Googled it. They go to the doctor with not enough research of their own. Presumably, if they had known the side effects in advance, they would have had the chance to exercise their own discretion about the proposed treatment. If they hadn't intended to, why blame the doctor for not telling them?

 

In fact, in the UK, they are encouraging more and more self-diagnosis! We even have government websites with flowcharts for self-diagnosis to carry out before bothering a doctor. You'd have to have something relatively unusual for a doctor to be "mandatory". And, to be frank, a lot of people who go to their doctor are just sent away with a box of useless pills to make them feel better.

 

Talking about self-diagnosis....

 

I once started to get a very common ailment -- lower back pain. I noticed it very quickly, but I though it was just one of those things that would just "go away". It didn't. I could have gone to see a doctor or specialist, but I didn't. I had a good think. You know what? I'd quite recently bought this very laptop I am typing on, now, and placed it alongside my PC. Could the action of turning from PC to type on my laptop be causing the problem? So, I re-organized my desk, and bingo, problem solved. I'd been using the desktop for months before the problem showed, and the subtle movements that were causing the back pain would only begin to hurt after I'd left my desk for a while and wasn't moving my back so much! Making the connection required proper diligence. A doctor, unaware of my circumstances, would probably have diagnosed a pinched nerve and sent me home with painkillers. And even if a very diligent doctor had prompted me to observe any "life changes", he wouldn't have been able to inspire me the way I did myself..

 

Anyway, re vocal training, I think your analogy is so on point, although I would draw the opposite conclusion. For me, it demonstrates how important it is to see advice as something supplementary to your own effort, rather than an exercise in obedience.

 

I am not against tutors, but those who do not allow you to exercise your own discretion at all, I avoid like the plague.

[CosmicDolphin]

Well the NHS is whole other debate, there are Dr's that miss things or mis-diagnose people all the time, after what..7yrs of training to be a GP ? People have died through symptoms being missed.

 

12 years ago...Our 2nd child may well not have been here today if my wife had not "battled" the NHS , argued with the now infamous Stafford hospital, and outright told them she wasn't going anywhere until they could find out why a 9 month old baby was losing weight, not growing and spent his waking hours crying almost none stop. Took the cardiologist at Birmingham Children's about 20 seconds spot his heart condition that Stafford had missed, and perform emergency open heart surgery within 24hrs using a technique they pioneered a number of years earlier..

 

My point being, don't believe everything you're told , there are people who will put themselves forward as experts that aren't qualified, especially online where it's easy to set yourself up as one without any regulation. But if you've tried everything and four years later ( I spent 3 or 4 years trying to teach myself too ) you don't sound what most people consider "good" then find a real expert and those same instincts should guide you to the right person. Mine certainly isn't prescriptive...she just shows me the path, I'm the one that has to travel along it. She challenges me too, takes me out my comfort zone and motivates me to do better each time. It's more than just explaining how to physically sing, the good ones are also adept at the psychology of it too.

 

I know you're in no hurry but with the right teacher I reckon you could make that 4yr improvement in under 6 months....Do it for a year and that's like 8yrs of fumbling around by yourself !

 

[kickingtone]

^

Well, each to his own, eh!

[CosmicDolphin]

I am with Aaron (Superior Singing Method), I tried myself and it improved very well. They promise that they will make us better in 8 weeks but that is not like that... I got improvement in 15 weeks (Maybe I am a bit Lazy)...

 

Did not rate it all and this post reads like an Advertisment.

 

I think that all of these courses are somewhat useless without objective qualified feedback.

 

[davie]

 

Did not rate it all and this post reads like an Advertisment.

 

I think that all of these courses are somewhat useless without objective qualified feedback.

 

This has been an occasionally spammed on this forum in the past. I would ignore that post.

[CosmicDolphin]

Howdy?

I am a member of the superior singing method and some other courses, the course which I find awesome is Aaron one. Tyler James did a complete review (https://www.singing-life.com/superio...method-review/) on Aaron this product, take a look and check it out...

 

The rest which you named in the post, till yet I didn't check them. (So not Sure)

 

Well I find this post completely suspicious..new member..first post....English not first language by the way it's written

 

Care to back it up with any examples of your " before " and "after" ?

[davie]

CD, you are correct, that user is a spammer, which I have dealt with accordingly.

 

I have also decided close this thread because this is a very old thread that attracts spammers.

 

If anyone is genuinely interested in discussing singing methods or techniques then feel free to start a new thread.

 

[Argozahn]

I use Robert Lunte's course, Kevin Richards course also. They are both excellent and I have had contact with both via facebook and/or you tube, and both have been courteous and professional and responded quickly with anything I ever asked either of them. I choose them over the others because they are teaching not preaching, or wasting my mind with bashing others. I'll just leave it there. Anyone who does any business online is going to gain a few haters along the way, its just the sad state of things ATM. I have seen the other teacher's mentioned, and I would think they all have something to teach. So its not about who is best, its about who is best for YOU. Who is going to motivate you and keep you motivated? Nobody can teach anything to a lazy person. All have some credible clients, and are themselves able to demonstrate what they teach. Don't like the style, the look, the hair? NBD choose one of the other fine teachers. Just the keep in mind, the real secret to singing after learning how and DOING it, A LOT.

[Voice Mechanic]

The Voice Mechanic in Hollywood, CA is very good. Sean Lee teaches all styles including metal! He has a unique way of teaching you to project your voice with proper breath support and without blowing air out while you do it. The results are amazing and it works right away! Check him out at voicemechanic.com